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Pathfindersonline • View topic - Certified Drill Instructor Program

Pathfindersonline

Networking ideas for Pathfinder Ministry
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:09 am 
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I saw a website that a conference put up talking about the Certified Drill Instructor program. Does anyone have a program like this in their conference?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:15 pm 
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Georgia-Cumberland Conference has something that sounds like what you are talking about.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:58 pm 
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I have seen the website that talks about a Certified Drill Instructor Program and it appears to be the Georgia-Cumberland Conference. But I know of no other Conferences that have a specific program for Drill Instructors.

My conference(Oregon) has a class that is taught to TLTs that is a basic introduction to the principles and techniques needed to effectively teach drill and ceremonies to Pathfinders but nothing available to general staff. I have outlined coursework for two levels of Drill Instructor training that I hope to implement eventually; but there just doesn't seem to be enough people interested in devoting the time it takes to properly learn all the skills an knowledge to take Pathfinder Drill to the next level.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:44 am 
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Perhaps it would be a good idea to create a Drill Instructor honor? That would get the information out there through established channels.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:37 pm 
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I have thought about an honor for Drill Instruction but have not pursued the idea because of some issues I think would seriously compromise it's goal. I think that type of honor would have to be set-up along the lines of the current scuba diving honor is where there is no actual coursework in the honor other than having successfully completed an accredited course taught by a certified instructor.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:57 am 
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I have taught the March and Drill Seminar (MG) at the Michigan Conference for over 30 years now. I saw the CDI website (Georgia Conf) and thought it was a great idea. I tried to contact someone at their conference but could not get through. I'm not sure if they still have the program running but I think it's a great idea. The idea for a drill instructor honor is interesting but I too have some concerns. It would be sad if they were handed out in an hour seminar with little knowledge passed on. Please feel free to email me: hcambero@gmail.com if you have more comments. I appreciate the feedback.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:03 am 
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Yes, I think having some form of formalized Drill Instructor training would be a great aid to Pathfinders. I would love to look over the curriculum of the Georgia Conference's CDI program but like you said, the website appears to be defunct.

I agree with you, mccdrillmaster, that an hour or even the up to several hours dedicated to Drill in the upper echelon training levels is grossly inadequate for developing the skills and knowledge needed to be an efficient and effective Drill Instructor. Ideally, I would like to see a curriculum of training consisting of a weekend of Instruction followed by at least a years worth of field work actively training Pathfinders in a wide range of techniques and skill levels. Then returning to the training organization for evaluation and then being "invested", "certified", or other appropriate term with their Drill Instructor credentials.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:10 am 
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Here's my idea... Train the trainer! Not only teach the new/experienced instructor but also have them teach the seminar(s) to their clubs and then in the following year teach them in the seminar weekend. For example:
Year 1 - take seminar classes (basic drill)/teach club during year
Year 2 - take seminar classes (fancy drill)/teach basic seminar classes / Certified Drill Instructor (Basic)
Year 3 - take seminar classes (Judging/Advanced/etc)/teach basic/fancy drill / Certified Drill Instructor (Fancy)
Year 4+ - teach drill seminars / Certified Drill Instructor (Instructor Level)

This way not only are drill instructors properly trained but they become drill instructors. Also, not only does the training happen during the weekend training but they pass on the knowledge during the year to their staff and Pathfinders.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:02 am 
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I like your idea of having more advanced students teaching newer students. The biggest issue I could see coming up is having people in levels that are supposed to be teaching classes as well as attending their next level of training. I also think you could combine the year 2 and 3 curriculum. It's just my personal opinion that there isn't much to teach in the Fancy drill category other than some general guidelines and in an instructional setting, I would include some generic Fancy drill movements to get the students in the correct mindset.

I love to see people use terms like "properly trained". I feel as though the proper training is one of the biggest problems facing Pathfinder Drill. People who teach drill but have no fundamentals in the History or Philosophy of drill and do not understand the tremendous responsibility they have placed on their shoulders. I have seen poor teachers drive Pathfinders away from the club. A curriculum must not only teach the technical skill-set but also instill the dedication, professionalism, and Leadership skills that make drill instructors outside of Pathfinders the respected individuals they are.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:40 am 
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Thanks for the feedback, I was surprised when you said that there wasn't much to teach about fancy drill. I guess it depends on what's being taught. I see fancy drill as being broken down to three styles: Fancy/Precision/Freestyle. Also, there are some many fancy drill steps/routines that could be taught/learned. I guess that's probably what you meant because there is no "standard" so nothing is taught, just a few basic rules are taught....

I'm a dreamer, I know that a lot of drill instructors/teams think that drill moves/routines should be hidden or copyrighted but I think that it should be shared and copied. I drill instructor/team should be challenged each year to come up with new moves and routines and share them on youtube (that's my biggest source).

Fancy drill fosters creativity, uses math, teamwork and sportsmanship. Teaching basic rules is ok, but I believe there is a need to teach instructors more details on how to create a drill routine, pick and train advanced pathfinders, and how to create new stationary steps and marching routines.

Can you tell Fancy drill is my passion?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:35 am 
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I may have been a little unclear with my phrasing. When I say there is not much to teach, I don't mean that there is not much to learn. I think the fancy drill area is the place where each drill instructor's character and personality come out in the same way a composer is reflected in his/her music. As such, there may be basics to teach but then I believe each instructor must let their creativity work for them. I very much like that you mentioned teaching the mechanics of how to put fancy drill routines together. It is a skill that can be very hard to learn without instruction. And I agree that some excellent fundamental fancy drill movements can be taught.

My Conference distinguishes three types of drill: Basic (movements done strictly to manual specifications), Advanced (think Marine Corps Silent Drill Platoon or US Army Old Guard), and Exhibition (think JROTC unarmed exhibition drill that could include drums, flags, etc).

I suppose I would be in the middle of the road when it comes to secrecy about drill. I think it's part of the fun to guard your new moves till they come out at whatever demonstration where the other tams have done the same. Then everything is out on the floor it's free for anyone who has seen it to try to copy. I will quite freely talk about my methodology and training program. We will get much better, faster this way.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:43 am 
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Like the drill instructors we are, we think the same. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:57 pm 
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I'm sorry to hear that the Georgia-Cumberland Conference site isn't helpful. Leadership changes must have allowed our sites to fall behind. The program does still exist. I'd be happy to acquire more info on the GCC cdi program.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:02 am 
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Thanks Veteranpathfinder, I would be very interested in seeing the curriculum GCC has developed.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:47 pm 
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Actually I got ahold of the person who wrote the manual for their program and he is sending me a copy via postal mail. I also presented the idea to start a similar program in my conference and the Pathfinder Director is very interested in it. It will be presented to the area directors in January. If you were creating a program like this from scratch what would you like to add?


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