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Pathfindersonline • View topic - A few questions

Pathfindersonline

Networking ideas for Pathfinder Ministry
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 Post subject: A few questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:26 am 
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1) With the command "by the numbers" do you count out loud as you perform the command? For instance if you were given the command "by the numbers" followed by "right face" would you then turn right while saying "one" and then after setting your left foot down say "two"? I am not sure I am even on the right track with this command. This is how my clubs last drill instructor had us do it, but she was wrong about a lot of other stuff so I just wanted to know for sure. If this isn't right could someone please try and explain it to me?

2) Do the requirements for drill competition vary from conference to conference? If so could someone tell me what they are for Georgia-Cumberland or give me the name of a site I could go to that would tell me?

Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:47 am 
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I am not sure about your first question. I will look that one up and get back to you. I know I have seen it done both ways. It may be a simple question of interpretation of the rules.

As far as your second question goes. Yes, Drill competition rule vary greatly from conference to conference. I do not know the ones for Georgia-Cumberland. I would recommend contacting your conference pathfinder director and ask who is in charge of the competitions or where you could look at the rules. Maybe someone else knows the answer.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:14 am 
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Give the command "by the numbers"

Give the command "right face"
No one does anything until you give the next command

Give the command "one"
Pathfinders perform the first step of the command and turn to the right

Give the command "two"
Pathfinders perform the second step of the command and bring their feet together

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:20 pm 
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Although my experience lies in Canadian drill, I'll offer an opinion.

First of all, performing drill by numbers should be viewed as a tool, not as a means unto itself. The ultimate purpose is to teach people how to perform drill correctly, in unison, and with the proper timing so if your method achieves those ends you can't go far wrong.

When doing drill by numbers the timing of the drill movements can be called out by the instructor, by the trainees, or by both. In the initial stages of drill instruction it is useful for the instructor to be the only one calling out the time so that the trainees get used to the proper timing of drill movements. As an example of this, the instructor would give the command "RIGHT TURN BY NUMBERS, SQUAD - ONE", followed immediately by the instructor shouting "ONE" once again. The first ONE signals the squad to execute the movement while the second ONE serves as the timing. As trainees progress in training, the cautionary command "CALLING OUT THE TIME" is used to order a squad to call out the time as it executes the movemements. For example, on the command "CALLING OUT THE TIME, RIGHT TURN BY NUMBERS, SQUAD - ONE", the squad would peform the movement on the executive command ONE calling out the timing "ONE" as it did so. On the command "SQUAD - TWO", the squad would perform the second movement while calling out "TWO". In your style of drill, in which the foot is not raised and the knee is not bent, the squad would call out the time as it started the movements. If done sharply, this results in the movements being done in exactly the same amount of time it takes to call out the timing. However, in Canadian drill we bend the rear knee and raise the rear foot on the second part of the turn, so that the upper and lower leg form a right angle with the upper thigh parallel to the ground (think of a stork balanced on one leg, except that their legs bend backwards :)), then straighten the leg and place the foot on the ground to complete the turn. This movement takes longer to perform than it does to call out the time, so in our case the squad would commence the movement and call out "TWO" just as the foot struck the ground. This results in a slight lag between the time the movement commences and the instant the timing is called out, but it ensures that trainees execute the movement in unison.

Once trainees are proficient at executing drill by numbers, the next step is to have them perform the complete movement while calling out the time. In our drill, on the command "CALLING OUT THE TIME, RIGHT - TURN", the squad would pivot 90 degrees to the right calling out "ONE", pause for one second while calling out "TWO - THREE", then bend the left knee and place the left foot on the ground next to the right foot on the count of "ONE" (no, that's not a typo; the count is ONE, not TWO as when doing drill by numbers). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there's no pause between the first and second movements of your right or left face so your equivalent might be along the lines of your trainees calling out "ONE - TWO" in response to the command "RIGHT - FACE" .

The final stage of drill training is for trainees to perform drill movements in correct time without any timing called aloud. For example, on the command "JUDGING THE TIME, RIGHT - TURN", our trainees would perform the turn to the count of ONE, TWO-THREE, ONE but would do so by calling the time silently in their heads or by relying on muscle memory to gauge the timing.


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:17 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:49 pm 
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The way I see it, "by the numbers" is a preparatory command that makes the next command that will include a command of execution into a purely preparatory command also. In other words "by the numbers" is a preparatory command, "left face" is a preparatory command, "one" is the first command of execution. Normally left face is a preparatory command (left) and a command of execution (face) but the command of "by the numbers" overrides that normality.

The purpose of "by the numbers" is to break every movement down to individual steps for learning and as such, each step must be announced. The manual does say that "All subsequent commands are executed by the numbers until the command
WITHOUT THE NUMBERS is given." To me this would mean that all numbers, including one, must be verbally stated. It then states "The first count of the movement is executed on the command of execution" which as I stated above would be "one" and not the "face" of left/right/about face. I see "by the numbers" as a command and not a directive.

Just my view, it's on sale this week.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:22 pm 
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I think by the numbers has been aptly answered. So I'll just answer your second question.

Yes, requirements vary greatly from conference to conference. As for the GCC (Georgia-Cumberland Conference), there isn't really a website for the requirements. However, as an instructor in that conference I'll be more than happy to help you in any way I can.

There are two parts to the event. The first (happening throughout the morning) is the compulsory routine part. This is mostly graded on how well you work as a team, how well you execute commands, etc. There is a time limit, I think it is 2-4 minutes. Commands you will have to know include: Fall In, To The Rear, Column Right/Left, Counter Columns, Right/Left Face, Column Half Right/Left, Parade Rest, Half Step, Right/Left Flank, Prayer Attention, Close Interval Dress Right Dress, Open Ranks, Close Ranks, Eyes Right (I'm guessing that we would be using the head judge as our review stand), Fall Out. There may be a few more basic ones, but I think that is most of them. The way that it will work is that a team will march in and will be given a card with a list of 15 commands, in a random order, to execute in the order listed on the card. As always, the times starts and finishes with a salute and announcement of beginning/ending of routine to the head judge.

The second part of the event takes place in the afternoon. This is a "freestyle" event. This part encourages unique and more fancy moves to be displayed. It judged more on creativity than than the earlier event. Again, there will be a time limit (though I couldn't give it to you off the top of my head).

I hope my info helps you. Feel free to ask about any other questions.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:33 pm 
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Thanks to all who helped and posted a response. They cleared everything up for me.


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