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Pathfindersonline • View topic - Use of "Rifles" and "Sabres"

Pathfindersonline

Networking ideas for Pathfinder Ministry
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:03 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:11 pm 
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Though pathfinder march & drill is almost entirely based on military march & drill, as Adventists, we have drawn the line as to what we will and will not do between armed and unarmed march & drill. The idea ideas behind march and drill, for pathfinders are

1. Order- It helps maintain an organized unit.

2. Morale- training discipline and group unity.

3. Enjoyment- Fun activity, promotes use of imagination.

4. Followship- helps one learn to take orders, and follow them.

5. Attention- Pay attention to leader.

()

Because none of these say anything about the use of arms, pathfinder march & drill instructors have not taught march & drill with arms to a great degree. Another reason that pathfinders don't include arms in drill is due to the fact that Adventist, in general, don't believe in "bearing arms." The thought is that, as Adventists, we should not encourage the use of arms in any way. A final aspect that pathfinders don't use arms in march & drill is due to the fact that in some countries around the world, teaching march & drill tends to make certain governments nervous. They may view the teaching of march & drill as the beginnings of training an army (or whatever else you might want to call it). The use of sabers or mock rifles would make it seem all the more likely that an army is being trained. That might push a specific government beyond tolleration and they might shut the march & drill practices or even the entire pathfinder club down.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:33 pm 
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That's pretty much what I've been told. Think I'll stick to learning how to use flags in my drill.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:28 am 
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Flags are really neat, and I personally think they are better than bearing arms. If you can get a fancy routine with the flag operation perfectly uniform, that would be the most awesome thing in the world!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:56 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:46 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:55 pm 
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Could I get a reference for the quote from the Pathfinder Admin. manual?
I am very interested in all things relating to Pathfinder Drill, as well as debunking some of the myths that propagate around Pathfinder Drill and Ceremonies. Not to say that you are wrong I just need to get a hard copy for my research.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:09 am 
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Thanks for asking.

It's on page 55 of the General Conference Admin Manual 2004 edition.

I keep getting mixed up between NAD and GC books in my mind. I really wish NAD would get on the ball and update some resources and distribute them electronically.

So this paragraph may not apply to NAD ? I don't have my paper and binder manual handy.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:25 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:53 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:13 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:52 am 
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For those who would be interested, I am currently in the process of writing a new Pathfinder Drill Manual. Originally for use in my club. It is basically an expanded version of the current Pathfinder Drill Manual, but much more expanded to include sections on large formations, parades, color guard and flag ceremonies, expanded guidon manual, instructions for Drill Instructors, etc. It is a work in progress and I don't have much time to work on it.

It has been suggested to me that once I complete it I should submit it to NAD for review as the next edition of the manual. Either way, I would be very interested in input as to what areas people feel are lacking so I can make sure they are addressed.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:44 am 
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The main thing that frustrates me about drilling in our club is that each leader has different views on drilling. The director has just recently learned the order of rests at the halt from most rigid to most relaxed (although he frequently still confuses At Ease and Stand At, EASE), and is convinced that you have to go through all of them to get to Rest. However, you can call Rest from the position of Attention!

In addition to this, all of our staff members are unclear of the commands and what exactly is involved in each one. The Pathfinders are being taught 10 different things, and we are all very confused.

I think it would be nice if you would address in your manual the need of unification at least among the staff members of the local club (the whole conference might be a bit difficult, and it's usually not too terrible to have a little variations there). All the staff members should be on the same page, even if it's one page behind or ahead of the right one. At least then we would be able to teach drilling and marching to the Pathfinders.

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Last edited by tuningpeg571 on Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:04 pm 
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Tunniq,
You are so right! Everyone - no matter whom, should be teaching the same thing!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:23 am 
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I know exactly what you mean. And that is an excellent point. I will be sure to include a section on drill continuity within a club and in general.

The thing is that each drill instructor will have different interpretations of the drill manual; however, those discrepancies should only be limited to small things that still fall under the grand scheme of Pathfinder drill. Like you, I see issues with Pathfinder drill that are specifically covered in the drill manual. Instructors should make sure they teach what is in the manual.

One thing to consider; however, when criticizing how drill is taught is the different backgrounds of the individual. If they have any military experience, they will teach Pathfinders to do the drill they were taught. It is hard to get out of old habits. And since each branch employs slightly different drill technique. It is next to impossible to correct all discrepancies...as was pointed out.

Still, there should be consistency within a club. Thanks for the input.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:52 pm 
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I agree that it is hard for people who have been trained in army drill or marching band drill to teach pathfinder drill, because there are differences. However, when none of your staff members have that background, the issue is simply that they don't know how to drill. In order to teach Pathfinders how to drill, the staff members can't be teaching 10 different things. The easiest way to solve this problem is to make sure everyone knows what the manual says...

Lol, we do have a specialty guy come in and do hard-core drilling who is in the marines. He, however, realizes that there are a few differences in the way the Pathfinders do things, and he is open to instruction in such matters and has no problem going along with the way we do things.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:48 pm 
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That is the way it needs to be. There is nothing wrong with a military person teaching Drill & Marching. But, like tuningpeg571 said, they need to know that some things will be different. They need to be willing to learn and teach those differences to the pathfinders.

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