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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:11 pm 
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Is there is place for illusions and magic to teach spiritual lesson at our camporees? How much should culture or what part does culture play in events where the name of God is to be lifted up?

Trevor


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:09 pm 
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Honestly, I don't think magic or whatever should be used in teaching about God. God specifically warns all through the Bible that we are not to meddle in witchcraft. So why would He want us to use it to teach others about Him?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:34 pm 
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Do you mean "pull a rabbit out of a hat magic" or witchcraft? There's a BIG difference.

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 Post subject: Slight of Hand vs. Magic
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:07 pm 
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Some of you may have seen Steve Varrow perform his Christian Illusions demonstrations at a Camporee or other youth event. He is a SDA illusionist from Tennessee I believe. He's really good, and is VERY clear that he is NOT performing magic... rather, his hand is simply quicker than the eye, leaving us seeing things that don't seem possible. He ALWAYS makes spritual points with a Bible story attached as part of his performance.

There's another guy that I've seen a couple of times, from Florida, but I don't remember his name. Maybe our members from Florida, like Iris, might be able to tell us who he is.

Mark O'Ffill

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Last edited by pathfinders on Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:31 pm 
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I agree that this is fine, because it is not magic. Is this what you were talking about, Quileebee?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:00 am 
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pathfinders wrote:
Some of you may have seen Steve Varrow perform his Christian Illusions demonstrations at a Camporee or other youth event. He is a SDA illusionist from Tennessee I believe. He's really good, and is VERY clear that he is NOT performing magic... rather, his hand is simply quicker than the eye, leaving us seeing things that don't seem possible. He ALWAYS makes spritual points with a Bible story attached as part of his performance.

...

Mark O'Ffill


Steve came to one of our Alberta wide Pathfinder get togethers. His work is very good, and the Pathfinders paid close attention to both his illusions, and his spiritual lessons.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:29 pm 
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I have to agree with tuningpeg. To me there is no difference between the two (illusions and magic tricks). Both have secrets that only the performers know the answer to, and without knowing the true motives behind them, we cannot truly say that any one is okay or better than the other. And just because an Adventist is the performer doesn't make it okay ("Everyone in the church ain't saved"). Satan will try to use any method he can to steer us away from the truth (remember that he will send an imposter in the end time to fool anyone who will believe that Jesus has come before He actually does). Now I am not saying that these performers aren't sincerely trying to bring others closer to Christ, but since this is definately a gray area, I personally don't think that we should be doing these things at camporees and other church functions as not to offend anyone.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:22 pm 
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I have to say that I agree with those who say it is ok under the right circumstances! I have seen Steve many times and think that he is indeed very clear about what he is doing. If he revealed how he did everything, there would be no surprise. He uses this surprise to grab peoples attention and really think about what he is doing and saying; therefore more people put his message to heart, because they are thinking about it. I have not studied in depth about this subject, but Steve varrow has. When he became an SDA, he gave up allusions for a while while he studied in depth as to whether it was ok or not. As for the end days, all you have to do is check what is being shown to you and cross reference/check it with what the Bible says to know what is true and right; and when in doubt, don't believe it. In conclusion I think that each person should be left to their own opinion (which has been carefully studied of course) on this subject without judgment from others.

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