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Networking ideas for Pathfinder Ministry
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 Post subject: Broken link
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:59 am 
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Thanks for the post, however, the link you posted is broken. Is there another way to get the information?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:24 am 
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Skillful Ranger
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Location: Central New Hampshire
My church recently had an evangelistic series. Our pastor completely shut down our club for 3 months, agaisnt the objections of the club director. She had evenmoved the meetings to the other church in our district so they wouldn't interfere. We lost so much time because of that. Now we are scrambling to get things done....

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:18 pm 
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Location: Phoenix, Arizona (USA): NAD
Thank you Mike for the comment. A couple of years ago I was returning to work with my childhood club. At this time the staff had changed dramatically several times and most of the staff were inexperienced. I wittnessed during the short time at the end of a Pathfinder year I was there a struggle with class work and many other areas as a result of an inexperienced but potentially skilled staff.

While on vacation that summer at the family cabin I wrote all of these junior level outlines. The final weekend of my vacation was spent at the conferecne leadership convention. This was the only opportuntiy I would have before the year started to really help the staff get organized, the Director was experienced and I had known him for years, meetings went well that weekend and the outlines helped us a lot through the following year. We (XYRI) decided to publish them after that time. I am happy if any thing we do helps even the slightest.

God Bless,

Chris Fishell
Xtreme Youth Resources International


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 Post subject: Unfriendly pastor??
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:23 pm 
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Location: North American Division Pathfinder Ministries
I find it hard to comprehend that a pastor would be as short sighted as to close down a YOUTH ORIENTED club such as Pathfinders for 3 months. Did your club negotiate for a different night / time? Would he/she have allowed you to work on witnessing honors in conjunction with the meetings?

There are several including:
Personal Evangelism
Evangelism Award
Junior Witnessing
Adventurer for Christ and Advanced Adventurer for Christ

Mark O'Ffill

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We are His Hands, touching the World Wide Web around us. . . .


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:32 pm 
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Master Guide
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Location: Phoenix, Arizona (USA): NAD
I am glad you said that first. Pastors who get too focused on evangelism as a way to increase their personal standing at the conference and some for other reasons have a way of acting as if they "own the store lock stock and barrel." This is not at even many of our churches only some, but even some is too many. It saddens me to see boards allow Pastors to push aside ministry to the church for any reason. Some Pastors I know have no interest in youth at all and consider there presence auxilary. If I did not have first-hand experience with this I would not beleive it. I am encouraged to read that at least the Director tried to move the meetings and keep things going even if it was not completely successful to do so.

Pastors are human too certianly so as all fail from time to time to keep the wider picture in focus. It is a disappointment but forgivable, we would pray though that a pastor who get to propriatory will not stay in such a state, for the good of the pastor and the flock.

God Bless,

Chris Fishell
Xtreme Youth Resources International


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:52 pm 
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Notice I didn't say I'd never seen it happen? In fact, when I was in MI conference, one church board tried to shut down our club for the whole 3 month crusade. We were able to negotiate a change of club meeting time, and volunteered to do all the "deaconing" and "childcare" during the meetings. Foe became friend over time, especially since we all came through and formed the LARGEST contigent of membership support for the meetings. We also benefited by earning three honors and gaining two new club members who noticed our involvement and Pathfinder uniforms. . . they ended up joining. One stayed, and later got baptized, now is in one of our SDA colleges... great inspiring REAL story that started out RATHER negative.

"with God all things are possible."

Mark O'Ffill

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We are His Hands, touching the World Wide Web around us. . . .


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:46 am 
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Astute Guide
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Location: Shreveport, LA (USA)
I have used the Pathfinder club as ushers in full dress uniforms for meetings on club meeting night. Luckly we have our own building and do not need the church for meetings. I am afraid there would be a problem if I had a pastor trying to shutdown the club for three months. While some of the club members might need to be in the evangelistic meetings this should be the decission of the individual member.

As a compromise, I might move the club meeting to one of the off nights of the series, but I don't think a shutdown was necessary.

I would hope the Conference Youth Director would back the Pathfinder Club if the problem was taken there.

I thought all of this was about our youth? What message is being sent by shutting down one of the few things we do for our youth?

Mr. Mike

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:19 pm 
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Skillful Ranger
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Location: Central New Hampshire
Mike, It made me mad when I had heard that he shut them down completely. She tried moving the meetings to the other chusrch and changing the time. That didnt work. She even went so far as to tell him that she wouldn't be available during the series ( I think he had a problem with this because our director also happens to be women's ministries director...). I just can't see how he could be so focused as to not even go about seeing how we could contribute. He wants his daughters to be involved, but when we were at the fall camporee, he kept pulling them out of formations.....
I mean, who does that!???.... :x
Sorry, it just made me angry that he could be so short-sighted..... :?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:36 am 
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Location: Canada
I am so happy to see this type of support forum. I just recently started attending a new church and saw a need to start a Pathfinder club ( I would also like to start Adventures because some of the younger children not yet Pathinfinder age are asking to join) as the church does not provide any age appropriate activities for the few children and youth who do attend.

The club started May of last year and we meet faithfully on Sabbath for two hour as there is no other actvities at that time. The church has been very supportive financially at the start up of the club. But in terms of volunteers there is much to be desired. Despite that we had an excellent first year, even with just myself taking the Pathfinders camping.

Despite there being no other activities on Sabbath the Pastor consistnetly is requesting to change the meeting time to Sunday. I have discussed this with tmy two other staff members as well as the Pathfinder and this i the time tha work best for all. The Pastor has never once been to any of our club meeting ever. At present if the club time is changed to Sunday I know I will not have any Pathfinders in attendance due to distance and homework. I have on several occassions mentioned this to him and several of the board members. My Associate director has mentioned that in the event that they don't want us to have it anymore that we can always have it somewhere else.

This just breaks my heart to know that in-reach of our youth is not seen as important . No wonder so many leave the church. One Pathfinder boy Mom is so appreciative of the club she has told me that he didn't want to attend church but now since joining Pathfinders he is sooo happy to come. I have schedule them to take part in the divine service from t ime ot time doing the children story, call to worhsip etc...

Now I'm at a lost as to what to do, can the Pastor shut down the club permanently, there are no other activities in the church beside Sababth School 10-11(which is not well organized) and and Divine hour (11-12:30). What about the hours during the Sabbath after lunch. How should I approach this the next time I am asked???

Sad and Wondering


Last edited by bellenicci on Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:09 pm 
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Master Guide
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Location: Phoenix, Arizona (USA): NAD
The Church Board opperates the church.

Sorry, got a little flared up there. The Church board has the ultimate discression as to what ministries and times exist at the local church, within the Guidlines of the Church Manual and NAD Operating Policy. There is even some lattitude allowed there for the Board of Officers. The Pastor's vote is one, only, and not over riding. Unless the local church became somehow apostate to the denomination the Pastor would be beyond his purpose in attempting to force the stopping of any act, and that would still require the intervention of the Conference Executeve Committee. The Pastor will be the Chair of whatever committees and the board he does not excuse himself from. The Pastor will support and grow the ministry of the church, this includes Pathfinder clubs.

I hope though that your situation has not come to anything like that. You as the Pathfinder Director would normally be a board member, this allows you to speak as freely as any other board member during the board meetings. If it is in the best interest of the church for any reason to stop their Pathfinder program then they may. They usually do not need to and do not. I have been involved in one club at an unincorporated church where they simply did not feel the contiued funding was in their best interest, they had one child from the church in the club. The others were not in their church and most of their kids did not want to go, quit or did not ever start. In this case, a young, growing church made a fiscally responsible descision and closed their club.

Meeting on Sabbath is an acceptable and recommended practice for Adventist Youth Ministries (all of them). Have you discussed with your Pastor why he wants you to change the time? Does he feel it is not an appropriate Sabbath activity? Are there certain members of the church that feel this way and are putting him under pressure? What ever the reason, it must be addressed specifically to remedy the problem. It does not sound like he wants to close the club so I suspect there is another issue at work.

An open discussion and much prayer on the matter will take care of the problem you face. I pray it meets a proper end.

God Bless,

Chris Fishell
Xtreme Youth Resources International


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:22 pm 
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Location: North American Division Pathfinder Ministries
Good Counsel from fish!. . . Most of us do the things we do for specific reasons. Finding the pastor's reasons and the needs that have brought them to the surface in this way is key and also a great way to assist him. . . and in the end he may become one of your clubs' biggest fans.

Please be careful. . . Lots of prayer is a must.

Mark O'Ffill

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We are His Hands, touching the World Wide Web around us. . . .


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:19 am 
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Location: Milton Freewater, Oregon
PLEASE, do not fight with your pastor... That is counterproductive no matter WHAT. But your pastor needs some education, he needs information, not obstruction.

You see, your pastor simply lacks understanding. I wish he could talk to the people in our conference office. Without pathfinders, the vast majority of kids leave our church when they become adult. The reverse is true for Pathfinders. Our church spent a large sum of money, to buy a website, billboards, direct mailing, and then ran a 2 or 3 week evengelism effort. We added 4 people to our church through this effort. I understand the budget was in excess of $12K. Pathfinders operated for two years, cost the Church budget about $1K, and in the same time, we had 7 people baptized, and the staff, who are "activist" have attracted more active people to both contribute and enrich our congregation by moving to our church.

There is NO BETTER PROGRAM IN OUR CHURCH, including church school, to retain our children, keep our younger and active adult members engaged, and provide church "family" than Pathfinders and Adventurers.

Your pastor is doing what he believes his work to be - to evangelize, to grow his church family, and so on - he just doesn't understand how much more effective it is to simply support a pathfinder club that's properly run. I am sure it's not ill will on his part, but simply a lack of grasping the "big picture".

He needs contact with people like Wayne Hicks, UCC, Mark O'fill, Gordon Pifer, who can present the picture to him, of how his can grow in energy, numbers, and family oriented activism, simply by supporting a pathfinder club. Someone who "speaks his language" and presents the facts from a perspective he grasps, can reach him and possibly completely change his POV on support of pathfindering.

Pray for him, and I would hope that someone who understand him and knows how to present things to him can reach him and let him know just how important Pathfindering really is to reaching the goals he is striving for.

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Weston, Oregon is my home.
I am Quartermaster for the Milton Rangers.
I run http://www.neofast.net
I was never a pathfinder as a kid.
I was at FOF in '04 and DTP in '99.
Wishing '09 to be in Heaven...Or Idaho.


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 Post subject: Re: Unfriendly pastor???
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:12 pm 
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Location: Carolina Conference, Southern Union Conference, NAD
Does the Pathfinder Director normally belong on any church board? I know that they hold a ministry position, but our church only has the PF Director attending board meetings for permission to go on activities or to answer questions from the board.

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"Jesus answered, 'Unless I wash you, you have no part with me.' " John 13:8b


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 Post subject: Re: Unfriendly pastor???
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:56 pm 
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The Pathfinder director is a member of the church board. Just like the youth director, the Pathfinder director has voice and vote. Both the Pathfinder and Youth director should work together and coordinate with each other.

The Pathfinder director is a leadership position chosen by the church's naming committee. Usually, anyone that has been chosen by the naming committee is a member of the church board.

I have been a part of larger churches that have many club ministries and have had an Administrative Director as a result. The Administrative Director helps coordinate all the clubs (Adventurer, Pathfinder, Ambassadors, Master Guide, etc.), especially to help make sure there are no scheduling conflicts, and meets with the directors of the clubs. In this case, the Administrative Director would be the representative on the church board for all of the church's clubs and the Pathfinder director would let the Admin. Dir. know of any permissions, questions or needs to present to the board.

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 Post subject: Re: Unfriendly pastor???
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:35 pm 
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Location: Central New Hampshire
The Church Manual, page 124 includes "Pathfinder Club leader" as a typical position on the church board. It also says this:
Quote:
In some cases, depending on the size of the membership, the board may
not include all of this list or may add additional members.

That decision is usually a recommendation made by the Nominating Committee, and confirmed by (or made by) the church in business session.

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The sooner you get behind, the more time you have to catch up.


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