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 Post subject: Cheveron Question
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:08 am 
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Location: Reynoldsburg, OH (USA)
OK, need help on this one. I checked and didn't see a question on this one. How to handle the cheveron with kids with short sleeve uniforms. According to the new PF staff manual that's on the world pathfinder site from the General Conference they show that all the cheverons back on the sleeve, but don't show the measurements for any patch placement on the sleeve. Any idea what to do, specially when the sleeve is too short and you don't get the proper 1/2 inch spacing between the world patch and the cheveron of the ranger class. My clubs are asking me so they can have it ready by the camporee (Aug). I would like to give them a correct information.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:58 am 
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I think Betsy's talking about this manual:
http://youth.gc.adventist.org/Pdf/pf_admin_manual_5-2004.pdf
The text and the pictures both state that all earned chevrons go on the sleeve, which I like a lot better than the way NAD manual currently reads. I hope the NAD decides to adopt this approach too.

As for squeezing them all onto a short sleeve... Good luck!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:10 am 
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I didn't know that the NAD is different. What are the NAD rules? I mean, in here in OH the kids have all the cheverons in the sleeve.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:03 am 
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The NAD version of the PF Staff Manual is inconsistent with itself. Its text says that only the highest class chevron goes on the sleeve, but the illustrations show multiple chevrons.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:14 am 
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We can only hope that a future NAD manual will be more carefully edited. In this case I recommend going with the text of the manual and not the picture. My argument is that the picture went unchanged from the previous editions of the manual but the text was did not. I infer from this that the editing failure is in the picture not the text.

If OH wants to put all of the chevrons on the sleeve then it will need to develop a standard of its own. The GC standard does seem to be a bit too long for many sleeves. Such standards are based on an average height boy and someone short would be in trouble, in most groups where uniforms are required there is then an acceptable squeezing of items to make them fit. You can not go higher than the outward facing portion of a shoulder and the fit of the shirt must be right then each item below the top must be moved up so laying in out before sewing is the only hope.

The short sleeve shirt I believe is the reason the standard was changed to only the highest chevron earned.

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Chris Fishell
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:07 am 
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You're probably right about short sleeves being the reason for the change. Our club wears long sleeves, but it's below freezing outside more days than not during PF season where we meet (New Hampshire).

If OH wants to allow multiple chevrons on the sleeve, perhaps they should also recommend long sleeves for short PFs with lots of chevrons. Some people are sticklers about having mixed length sleeves in a club, wanting everyone to have either long sleeves or short - I personally think that's a little overboard and should be left to personal preference.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:14 pm 
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Yeah, I know that I have trouble fitting all my chevrons on my sleeve and keeping proper measurements (shhh.. dont' tell anyone, but mine overlap slightly :shock: ). However, it would make sense to wear only the highest ranking chevron on the sleeve, since only the highest ranking class name strip and pin are worn on the shirt also. Some people put the ones from years past on their sash, but I found that if I did that I wouldn't have enough room for my honors...

Also, if you shorten the 1/2 inch measurement to a centimeter (i.e. a cm between top of sleeve and name strip, 1cm b/t name strip and world patch, and 1 cm b/t world patch and chevrons), I doubt that anyone is going to tell the difference, and it may give you just the amount of extra room you need. Last I checked they didn't go around inspecting your uniforms with measuring tape in hand... :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:56 pm 
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Quote:
Last I checked they didn't go around inspecting your uniforms with measuring tape in hand...

I've heard of that happening before though!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:11 pm 
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tuningpeg571, that was a good idea regarding shorten the measurement. I did that before I decided to get a long sleeve. I told the person about it or to get a long sleeve. I, for one, don't carry a measurement tape. I just look to see that they are in the right place.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:39 am 
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Betsy,

I know i'm always referring people to the Florid website, but I only know Florida. On our website we have a uniform manual that we try to keep as close to NAD & GC standards as possible. We have exact measurements on there that might be able to help you.

I understand your dilemma with the short sleeves. I'm not very tall myself, and I've been wearing the same Class A uniform shirt since I was a friend 14 years ago. I never really had a problem getting my chevrons on until we added the 2 new classes (Florida has 8 classes instead of 6). I was able to resolve the problem by shifting everything down.

I also judge uniforms at our annual state PF get together and at the occassional camporee. Because I know that smaller kids can't get smaller patches, I've always been more lenient on checking measurements. It's sort of a rule we've adopted here in Florida. Maybe, you can talk to the committee that judges and tell them about your concern. I don't believe it's fair to penalize a Pathfinder for something he/she has no control over. Well, that's my two cents on the subject. I hope this has helped some, even if only to let you know I understand where you're coming from.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:16 am 
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Iris,

Thanks for your two cents, as you called it. Here in Ohio we're also lenient. I talked to Mike, Conference Youth Director, about it and he's very understanding. I agree with you regarding penalizing. That's why I usually do a club pre-inspection to find out the reason when I find something wrong.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:23 am 
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I'm from Gulf States and we have addressed this problem. The general consensus is that if something is to be removed to make room for the chevrons, it's the union patch. The other thing that a lot of us in our local club have started doing is when a new chevron is to be added on, we remove the one and sew the new one to the old one. Then the two are sewn back as one unit. This is repeated each year a new chevron is earned. Currently I have all six classes sewn on my uniform as one complete unit. It may take extra time, but it is certainly easier to sew it back on as the unit gets larger. Again, another two cents worth.


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