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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:46 pm 
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I see this in the face in all of the church now. Jewelry it seems, has become common place for Adventists, so much so that even at church or church/Pathfinder gatherings it is openly uncontrolled. There was a brief period in my early teens even I wore a necklace, usually a St. Christopher given me by a Catholic aunt. I kept it hidden almost exclusively because I did not wear it to show off, in a short period I accepted what I have always believed and put it away, Idolatry is such whether anyone knows about it or not. I have boys in the church with earrings now, nothing so justifiable as a religious relic or symbol just earrings. Neither can be justified to me anymore, I've made that poor choice and learned my lesson.

Is jewelry control a problem for other groups? How do you approach it? Have we become desensitized to it after so long?

I am deeply concerned and want to know what others think on the matter.

God BLess,

Chris Fishell
Xtreme Youth Resources International


p.s. 6.20.05 spelling corrections only.


Last edited by fish on Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:29 pm 
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It seems to be comming up more often that it used to.
In my traveling, there seems to be some geographical areas that wear more shinny stuff than is the norm in my neck of the woods.

We have had discussions about the problem with our Directors at Leadership Training and how they handled it for non-SDA's.
So far, it has been the rule of these clubs not to wear it at Pathfinder functions.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:42 pm 
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Everyone must make their own choice on jewelry.

We have had issues with this for years. The Clubs I have been active with have set rules on jewelry. If it is a Pathfinder outing, no jewelry, if you are in uniform, no jewelry. If we catch you with it, we take it from you, remind you of the rule and return it to you after the outing is over. After a few times, they remember to leave it at home.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:56 pm 
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HPD25 wrote:
Everyone must make their own choice on jewelry.

We have had issues with this for years. The Clubs I have been active with have set rules on jewelry. If it is a Pathfinder outing, no jewelry, if you are in uniform, no jewelry. If we catch you with it, we take it from you, remind you of the rule and return it to you after the outing is over. After a few times, they remember to leave it at home.


One does make that choice by association. The church has doctrine against the wearing of jewelry with only the exception of items worn to designate the status of being married.

It is not the place of the church to change for society. The church is called out to be seperate from the world around it. We may not like the strict interpretation of the writings of the Bible in our youth but if we grow as Christians and are tuly learning to love God we will come to understand and love these standards by which we are to endeavor to live.

There is a short book that I recommend. It was recently provided to me by an associate that has/had a laxidazical stand on the issue, he felt I should read it. I asked him only one question: Is this supposed to me I am wrong in what I think? His answer surprised me, he said no, I would be surprised by what the book said and that the title was not reflective of one's first thought.

God Believes in Jewelry, R.E. Francis with George E. Vandeman. ISBN 0-8163-0590-0 it is only 31 pages cover to cover.

God Bless,

Chris Fishell
Xtreme Youth Resources International


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:02 pm 
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In addition to no jewelry on Pathfinder outings, or at meetings we have a dress code. Pants must cover ones underwear (for boys) and shirts and pants must stay connected when arms are lifted (for the girls). Simple things really, but I even have to watch my own kids.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:26 am 
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My Pathfinders used to regularly wear jewelry. Bracelets, earrings, necklaces, rings, etc...

When they came to Pathfinders, we had a study on jewelry. We didn't point at one scripture and say "look, thats why it's bad, take it off!" We made a full study out of it so that there's no question about it. We used that as the principles as to why Pathfinders will not allow you to wear jewelry. Necklaces, earrings, rings, bracelets, all of that is jewelry. There was a little reluctance about it because "my grandma gave me this necklace" and such. But they didn't complain too much, and in time, I see them during the week and they no longer wear the jewelry.

As Pathfinder leaders we have to convict the kids that our beliefs are justified with Scripture. "A Pathfinder Policy" is not enough, and we should have bible study on it. The same goes for unclean meats, and why we don't eat certain things on our campouts or at potluck.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:54 pm 
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It is interesting that this has become an issue nobody seems to want to discuss openly, and yet we see it everyday. What seems to add to the problem is when the parents are also wearing jewelry. How can we then "discourage" it in the youth when their parents are not even setting the example.

My theory is this: There are some who are tired of being viewed as "wierd", and would rather blend in to society by taking on the trappings that surround them. This, I view as "assimilation", and I do not agree with it. I was raised in a home that mildly discouraged the wearing of jewelry. Neither my mother, both grandmothers, sisters, even my friends in Academy did not wear jewelry. My father had said to me that it was my choice when I became an adult that if I wanted to, I could pierce my ears (he also said he'd kick me out the door if i came in the house wearing them, but that was his joke). Out of resepct for my parents and the way they have raised me, I choose not to wear any. The wedding band will have to be discussed with future husband should the topic come up.

If anything, we as Leaders need to lead by example, but always be ready to answer the question should the subject arise, and then meet it with more than a pat answer. Be prepared for the parents reactions, because some do feel that it should be a "non-issue". But if our youth are to be a representation of the Seventh-day Adventist church, and what it stands for, we should keep in mind that most outside of our church know that we generally do not wear jewelry, and will question if they see something that is odd.

This is, of course, my opinion, and it may differ sharply with others.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:29 pm 
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Interesting discussion. The Bible study is a great idea. After going through Bible study one time with my husband, we came to the point of jewelry. I cam to realize that even though the conference "approves" a wedding band - it is too just a decorative ring that has a sentimental value only - just like the "my grandma gave it to me..."

For a note - I used to wear my wedding band - I stopped after realizing you don't need a ring to prove you're married - just your love and God.

For the most part - by being an example - a small thing such as a wedding band can and will confuse the point of the jewelry Bible study. Wedding bands are not needed - just as the bracelets, necklaces, and earrings aren't. God is the only One who can say what is and what isn't allowed as far as this goes - it's best to go by His Word - not by "it will cause less strife - wedding bands are ok now..."

Those are my 2 cents. God bless. I hope you see why this is such an important issue.

Marcie

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:28 pm 
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MaderaPF wrote:
My Pathfinders used to regularly wear jewelry. Bracelets, earrings, necklaces, rings, etc...

When they came to Pathfinders, we had a study on jewelry. We didn't point at one scripture and say "look, thats why it's bad, take it off!" We made a full study out of it so that there's no question about it. We used that as the principles as to why Pathfinders will not allow you to wear jewelry. Necklaces, earrings, rings, bracelets, all of that is jewelry. There was a little reluctance about it because "my grandma gave me this necklace" and such. But they didn't complain too much, and in time, I see them during the week and they no longer wear the jewelry.

As Pathfinder leaders we have to convict the kids that our beliefs are justified with Scripture. "A Pathfinder Policy" is not enough, and we should have bible study on it. The same goes for unclean meats, and why we don't eat certain things on our campouts or at potluck.


Do you have a list of the scriptures you used in your study?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:33 pm 
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MaderaPF wrote:
My Pathfinders used to regularly wear jewelry. Bracelets, earrings, necklaces, rings, etc...

When they came to Pathfinders, we had a study on jewelry. We didn't point at one scripture and say "look, thats why it's bad, take it off!" We made a full study out of it so that there's no question about it. We used that as the principles as to why Pathfinders will not allow you to wear jewelry. Necklaces, earrings, rings, bracelets, all of that is jewelry. There was a little reluctance about it because "my grandma gave me this necklace" and such. But they didn't complain too much, and in time, I see them during the week and they no longer wear the jewelry.

As Pathfinder leaders we have to convict the kids that our beliefs are justified with Scripture. "A Pathfinder Policy" is not enough, and we should have bible study on it. The same goes for unclean meats, and why we don't eat certain things on our campouts or at potluck.


That is a really cool way to deal with a tough issue. I need to remember that one.


Although I agree that it is up to those that have jewelry. But, they need to be told once about our stance about the issue.

My parents wear a wedding band. I have no problem with it. It is just a little band. It has no stones and isn't made from much of any expensive materials. I draw my line at that. A simple wedding band and a not to expensive watch.

I begin to have problems with rings with large stones and other decorations that are usually used to enhance one's appearance.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:30 pm 
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Is there some sort of problem with "my grandma gave it to me"? I mean you can still be wearing it just to wear it, but for those who wear it because it's the only thing they have connected with a loved one I see a difference. You make it sound like it's just another excuse, and you may not know it, but you could be trampling on something precious. This is normally where I hear some sort of "the church believes" or "Ellen White says" and you're looked down upon.

Compared to salvation itself, it is non-issue. Most things are a non-issue until God Himself places a conviction. So it really gets to be legalistic and a playing with semantics. We think we have to change people before they can do whatever. That isn't our place. This is one of the areas I'm probably called a liberal in, but I get both conservatives and liberals upset anyway. Then it also depends on your view of God. "The church" is not what I base my beliefs upon. I learned that the hard way.

I think I'll stop now. This is the type of issue that sends me off on a tangent.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:49 pm 
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Cassiopeia wrote:
Compared to salvation itself, it is non-issue.


You're right about that. Jewery is a large gray area.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:53 pm 
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Cassiopeia wrote:
Is there some sort of problem with "my grandma gave it to me"? I mean you can still be wearing it just to wear it, but for those who wear it because it's the only thing they have connected with a loved one I see a difference. You make it sound like it's just another excuse, and you may not know it, but you could be trampling on something precious. This is normally where I hear some sort of "the church believes" or "Ellen White says" and you're looked down upon.

Compared to salvation itself, it is non-issue. Most things are a non-issue until God Himself places a conviction. So it really gets to be legalistic and a playing with semantics. We think we have to change people before they can do whatever. That isn't our place. This is one of the areas I'm probably called a liberal in, but I get both conservatives and liberals upset anyway. Then it also depends on your view of God. "The church" is not what I base my beliefs upon. I learned that the hard way.

I think I'll stop now. This is the type of issue that sends me off on a tangent.


Nothing wrong with keeping something because "my grandma (or whoever) gave it to me.." reason. My question is do you HAVE to wear it for show, or keep it tucked away for safekeeping? I have many sentimental things locked away. Another good point I just thought about, will our sentimental values on these types of goods tilt our focus from God? This is a good discussion! I love all the thoughts that are coming out. Everyone has great advice to add I must say.

We must ask God for wisdom on subjects as heartfelt as this one. Taking the wrong direction with this or any other topic could make it a stumbling block to the direction we are to be taking.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:07 pm 
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MaderaPF wrote:
My Pathfinders used to regularly wear jewelry. Bracelets, earrings, necklaces, rings, etc...

When they came to Pathfinders, we had a study on jewelry. We didn't point at one scripture and say "look, thats why it's bad, take it off!" We made a full study out of it so that there's no question about it. We used that as the principles as to why Pathfinders will not allow you to wear jewelry. Necklaces, earrings, rings, bracelets, all of that is jewelry. There was a little reluctance about it because "my grandma gave me this necklace" and such. But they didn't complain too much, and in time, I see them during the week and they no longer wear the jewelry.

As Pathfinder leaders we have to convict the kids that our beliefs are justified with Scripture. "A Pathfinder Policy" is not enough, and we should have bible study on it. The same goes for unclean meats, and why we don't eat certain things on our campouts or at potluck.


That is excellent.

It is important to learn the reasons behind a rule. Then each person can take ownership of that rule because they understand it and have adopted it.

Just being given a rule without any supporting reasons behind it, is why many don't care if they break that rule or not.

Having ownership in a rule makes all the difference in the world.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:39 am 
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I agree with Madera in that we should be able to use scriptures to justify our beliefs, so since no one answered my request for scriptures pertaining to jewelry, I did my own research. For any who are interested, Crusade Outlines and Bible Marking Guide by John Earnhardt and published by Amazing Facts gives a detailed explanation as to why we shouldn't wear jewelry and a list of scriptures to back it up. I bought the book from ABC for a couple of dollars max, and the scriptures are listed under the topic Christian Standards (#20). Amazing Facts also has some online boolks concerning the topic. The link to them is http://www.amazingfacts.org/items/free_ ... c=Pocketen.


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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 7:52 pm 
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Good day everyone
I have some pathfinders in my club who are not Adventist. They come to the club and I had to lay down some ground rules. I asked them nicely not to wear their jewelry to the meetings. To this day I still have them in the club and they brought their friends who are not Adventist and they too dont wear their jewelry.

It is your approach towards them and if you scorn them they wont return. Just address the issue and refer to the WORD. It works.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:42 am 
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I'm glad it worked so well for you, Johnster!

I have read things here and there in the Bible... I think I'll do a search for jewelry and see what all I can find. I think there is probably legitimate reason for the Adventist's church's general stance against jewelry, but I don't know the "behind-the-scenes" for myself. I personally don't wear any, mostly because I think it's pointless. But I don't have any strong spiritual convictions one way or the other at the moment. It's never really been a problem in our club, although I brought a non-SDA friend to camp once and she was told to take off her ring. She said, "I feel naked without my ring!"... :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:54 am 
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Why not have that study right here on line ? I'd like to read it right here.

I'd relate a story here, but it may be too personal, so I'll sum it up by saying that I have first hand experience that by not wearing a wedding band the potential for confusion exists, which may embarass people away from fellowship.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:40 am 
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On Wedding Bands.

It was not too long ago that the church changed its stance to allow the wearing of wedding rings. I could spend a long time on the discussion, I will try to be uncharactaristically short by focusing us first on one concept, the size of our world.

With little exception just a couple of thousand years ago weddings and life were quite different for even nomadic people not to mention seditary life. Nomads may have covered several hundred miles in their annual treks but it was almost always the same routes, people who occupied the same space knew them and if for no other reason than fear, strangers showed some respect until they got to know eachother (with some exception for nomadic raiders). If you were seditary, a villager somewhere it is probable that your life took place in an area that spanned no more than 30 miles from your place of birth. This in a time where the typical settlement was hundreds not millions. Even in the great cities like Rome people were known at least by their family name.

Weddings in most societies were long open affairs. The celebration of a wedding lasted up to two weeks in some societies and several days was normal. Everyone in region, even sojourners and passers through attended. That translates to everyone that you know or will ever know was at your wedding, there would be no question as to your status or that of your spouse. Only a stranger would not know and there always have been problems with rape in the world but the punishment in most societies again was a painful death so that is some deterent.

Now, I live in one of the largest metroplexes on Earth, it has one of the busiest international airports on Earth and provides a thuroughfaire if not destination to many thousands of immagrants. There are literally millions of people in the 5000 square miles of basin land that I live in and I don't even know all of my neighbors or even the names of all of my church brothers and sisters. There were a hundred or two people at my wedding and another couple of hundred who knew about it but that is not even a significant number of people in this area. Our lives also take us on occasion thousands of miles from our home. Their is no special garment that a man or woman wears in our society to denote marital status as there is in Islam society or there was (is) in Jewish society (even at the setting of the law there were already differences in how children and single adults dressed and wore there hair from those who were married).

I know, adults don't need such signates, after all we are married adults and can simply say so. Or not. Ever been tempted by any thing, of course you are human. Temptation is all around us, you can limit your exposure to some of it, a wedding ring is one way to limit the opportunities you have to commit adultery, like punishment for crime it deters some people (you may even be saving that person temptation too). Yes, there will be those who just don't care (on both sides of the ring). I am no great looker but I have been approached so I know there are people who don't care. I was even approached (while I was single) by a woman married to a pastor (no, don't ask, I won't tell the story). I however also know to be sure that my ring has saved me certain temptations.

It is proper to signify you are married in a known demeanor, in the U.S., Canada and most other "Western" societies the only commonly accepted signifcation of marriage is a ring. As a couple you must make that choice, before you marry and you should consider why. My ring is not to ordain myself, it is simply not large enough or ornaite enough to improve my appearance. In fact it is a descrete band that most would not notice unless they were looking for it.

God Bless,

Chris Fishell
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:48 pm 
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Currently I don't wear a wedding ring (a long story), but I am going to get one. I have been going back and forth about it, but I keep coming up with the same thing. My husband and I hold each other and kiss in public (we're still kinda newlyweds - 3 1/2 years), and for the most part in our society today it is okay to live with your boyfriend or girlfriend, which as a Christian I do not agree with, and I don't want people (strangers) to get that impression when they see us. Basically, it is about my witness. I want when people look at us to see that we've committed ourselves to each other and therefore it is okay (not sure if that's the right word to use, but I hope you get what I am trying to say) for us to hold each other and kiss (G-rated of course) in public. My husband says its nobody's business, but I know that when I see others doing the same thing, I look for a ring. What if someone else is looking for mine?

And like fish says, it doesn't have to be flashy. It just needs to be big enough to do the job.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:25 am 
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Just out of curiosity can it go to far?
In our club we were asked to not even wear hairbands on our wrists.
I cn understand why the Mom that asked us to do that thought her daughter was doing that as "Adventist Jewlery", but I'm know thats all ways the case. I have long hair and hairbands don't say in long(they keep falling out), so when I'm don't need my hair tied back I often keep the hairband on my wrist so I don't lose it. It has nothing to do with jewlrey in my case, but I can see how in some it would.

Any thoughts?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:19 pm 
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I agree with you on everything... I can see how it would be very frustrating for you, but on the other hand they can't say "Well you can wear headbands on your wrist, but you can't"... About all you can do is get used to not wearing them.

This an analogy I came up with a couple days ago for jewelry.

Scenario A
Imagine the most tiny, run-down house you ever saw, and then multiply it by two. It's so run-down that you don't think there's any way anyone could live in it. The paint is peeling off, the windows are broken, the gutters are falling off, the doors are crooked, and won't even shut all the way...

Now imagine that the owner strung a couple strands of Christmas lights randomly. It doesn't change the fact that it is so run down. You don't even notice the lights at first, because they aren't nearly so prominent as the state of the house itself.

The owner realizes this, so he adds more and more until it's like the most brilliant light display you ever saw in your life on a beat-up, ghost house. Now it looks rediculous! You look at it thinking, "Well, if they can spend all that time and money putting lights on the house, why couldn't they have spent the same amount of time and money fixing up the house itself?" It's a wanna-be, so out-of-place you can hardly bear to look at it.

So in the end, it made more sense not to have any lights.

There is no point in this ugly little house having lights at all, no matter if it's just a few or more than the house itself--it just doesn't fit!

Scenario B
There is this gorgeous mansion, 5 stories high, white marble, with a beautiful front yard that has perfect landscaping. It is so beautiful that you can't help but notice everytime you see it. You could study it for hours, and never tire or looking. The owner wants to put Christmas lights on it, so he strings a couple strands here, a couple there. With such a gorgeous house, there is no point in the few lights he put up! They look so out-of-place it's rediculous. I mean, aren't big, beautiful mansions supposed to have elaborate light displays? A couple of strands just doesn't go with the picture!

The owner realizes this and adds more, making a huge display that has everyone stopping to stare. Now you're thinking, "Okay, there's this huge, gorgeous, beautiful, sun-lit mansion, and they're covering it up with lights. Why???" Why do they spend the money to light up that awesome house when they don't need to, because it attracts attention with its own beauty.

So in the end, it makes more sense not to have any lights.

There is no point in the lights, as with too little it looks out of place and with much it just doesn't even make sense.
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I know that wasn't a perfect comparison, but it gets the main point across: jewelry is pointless. If you're ugly, it looks out of place; if you're beautiful, you don't need it, because it makes people wonder why you try to cover it up.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:38 pm 
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Although your use of the hairband is utilitarian and your wrist is practical storage; this habit has become an odd trend of self decoration. A watch has a purpose and a wrist is a handy place for it, a hairband has a purpose and your wrist is handy storage. A Rolex is a good time piece, but that is hardly why people who wear them wear them, and if the hairband worn on a girl's wrist has nothing to do with using it in her hair as needed well then....

Of course it can go too far, any thing can. While in Babylonian captivity a sect of Israelites (Judeans) emerged who came to notice that whenever the people fell away from YHWH they ended up in captivity. They set out to change their situation, they became obidiant to the law and taught others. Over time they gained influence and power (to little avail of their cause however) and over time their legalistic form became more and more rigid. Soon the fear of getting close to breaking the law or of doing so without realizing it made them move the line further and further from God's laws to an ultra legalistic form. As they had gained power over generations they held offices in the priesthood and on the Sanhedrin. As power is what it is, later generations of these men were highly corrupt and hypocritical. They were the Pharasees. They were not all bad men, not even close, but as you know them they appear to be. They went too far, so far even they failed their own standard.

Paul writes of the Spirit of the Law. God provided with a detail of what sin is, not always why. This establishes morality, if we obey God we are righteous and when we fail we must repent. If the purpose is self adoration then it is sin, if not then it is not. Paul also reminded us, from his own life lessons hard learned, that although we are free in Christ even an innocent action can lead others to sin, thus it is sin as we can cause others to stumble through our actions.

God Bless,

Chris Fishell
Xtremeyouthresources.org


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 1:14 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 2:11 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Tennessee, USA
What about collecting pins? Those are considered jewelry by some people, yet a lot of Pathfinders have oodles of them, and wear them on their hats.


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