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Networking ideas for Pathfinder Ministry
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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:58 am 
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jomegat wrote:
The honor has been partially taught and a little modified at our Leadership Training sessions this weekend. THe purpose of teaching it this weekend was to introduce it to several clubs and get them to pilot it as well. Paul, our conference associate PF director will be coming to my church to teach it to my club either next month or in March.

I wasn't able to attend the sessions at Leadership for a variety of reasons. First, because I was working on my PLA, and this is the first time we've had the seminars here in the Northern New England Conference. Second, because I had to bail Sabbath morning, drive three hours back to my church to be there for the baptism of four of my Pathfinders (hoorays!) But I returned Sunday morning, and my sons both attended the Fire Fighting sessions.

I'll get the modifications out soon, but probably not until it's taught in my club, as we are still in the process of modifying the modifications.

I can say that this honor has been very enthusiastically received in our conference. My youngest son's comments (he's a TLT) was that he thought he would not soon forget the things that he learned in it, unlike many of the other honors. I suggested that we might want to add this requirement:

Collect, draw, or photograph, and identify 15 Fire Fighters found in your local community. :lol:

Thanks again to everyone who worked on this. Paul is having some patches made up for it, so if anyone pilots this, let me know, and I'll see that you get some patches!

What modifications do we have to the honors thus far?

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:06 am 
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What modifications do we have to the honors thus far?

I'm not sure! I don't have his current set of requirements with me ATM, so I'll hafta check when I get home and compare the old to the new.

Paul has been to our club twice now to work on Fire Safety though. Last Sunday he had the kids dousing a metal bucket full of burning cedar shingles with a fire extinguisher. I can tell you with no uncertainty that this requirement is very much enjoyed!

We haven't finished it yet, and our PF year is almost over. We're going to pick it up again in the fall, and then try to do the Fire Fighting one as well. He has stressed the importance of taking our time on this one and getting it right, especially since it has the potential to be used all over the NAD, and because it has the potential to save lives.

But it IS moving forward!

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:52 am 
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I'm going to begin the Fire Safety Honor here in Ukraine this next week. I would have begun teaching it much sooner, but I had to back up and teach Red Alert and dodge a lot of staff training over the past 2 months. I've found that the hardest requirement to do here will be the extinguishing practice. Extinguishers are quite expensive, and reusable ones are not to be found. This is really one of the anchor point requirements. I don't want to just skip it, but I haven't found a way to do this requirement without experiencing significant cost (beyond what anyone, including myself, can afford).

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:16 am 
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How much does an extinguisher cost over there?

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:29 am 
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I think a refill is 300 UAH the rough equivalent of $40. The refills aren't very fast either. While that might not be much for Americans, it is extremely expensive for anyone over here. I don't know the cost of a new extinguisher.

I've thought about trying to make my own, reusable extinguisher (and maybe even adding it as a requirement for one of the two honors, if it works) based on the idea of the soda bottle rocket. I haven't had time to make anything yet, but the theory could possibly work.

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 1:59 am 
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veteranpathfinder wrote:
I've thought about trying to make my own, reusable extinguisher (and maybe even adding it as a requirement for one of the two honors, if it works) based on the idea of the soda bottle rocket. I haven't had time to make anything yet, but the theory could possibly work.


I won't have time to do this idea before I leave Ukraine, so I need to come up with some sort of alternative.

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 5:23 am 
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When will you leave? Maybe I can help with some funds for a fire extinguisher.

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 5:25 am 
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I can help too.

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 2:06 pm 
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sometimes fire fighting organizations can do hands on demonstrations at their station, or may even come to your club room. They bring/have their own gear usually stuff slightly out dated needing refilled or ones that may already have the pin seal broken. Worth while investigating.

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:53 am 
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jomegat wrote:
When will you leave? Maybe I can help with some funds for a fire extinguisher.

betsyc wrote:
I can help too.

Thanks for the offers everyone. The truth is that I'm leaving Ukraine in about 1.5 weeks. I've taught parts of the honor already. I don't know the best way to send funds to the Pathfinders here. There is an issue that I will write further on another time that plays into the "Pathfinder budget" here.
harv4 wrote:
sometimes fire fighting organizations can do hands on demonstrations at their station, or may even come to your club room. They bring/have their own gear usually stuff slightly out dated needing refilled or ones that may already have the pin seal broken. Worth while investigating.
The "community services" around here aren't quite as open to such things as they are back home.

I've looked into some different options for some of the requirements here. For the second requirement, we were able to visit a firefighting museum! For those who couldn't go, I, as a firefighter (though on leave), have given them a talk. There were only 3 extinguishers in my church, so we had to settle for 3 instead of the required 5 (though it was noted in the fire safety inspection that more were needed). I have had to settle for a garden hose as my extinguisher, so to speak. I gave them about 5-10 seconds to extinguish a trash fire. I kept it short because of the volume of water that a garden hose puts out. I made them stand a ways back and spray the fire instead of trying to extinguish it like you would water a plant. I also pinched the hose to simulate the emptying of the extinguisher. I'm not quite satisfied, but I know that they got the idea. And they, of course, loved the live fire demonstration.

I'm finding that the fire drill requirement is actually giving me the most trouble. I don't have near 30 people, even when combining all of the city clubs. We can discuss the issues involved and plan the drill. However, it isn't the same. They don't get to really see the side of what REALLY happens during a drill from the organizer's perspective.

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 5:31 am 
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Sounds like you have adapted pretty well. Have you been in contact with Paul (he's the one leading NNEC's effort to pilot the honor)? I'm sure he'd be interested in your feedback. I imagine you're going to have a full plate though with your return trip in only 1.5 weeks.

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 8:47 am 
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I've sent some stuff his way, but I haven't sent him this info yet. With my term ending, things are wild and unpredictable, so I haven't had a chance to sit down and wright something with the depth that it needs yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 2:05 pm 
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Hi Veteran Pathfinder.
I was wondering about your message signature in Russian. My pastor is from Russia with 3 years in Greece, so I got him to tranlate it. His translation is a better version of the original English Pathfinder Law.
I will start my day by having devotional
Honestly fulfil my duties
Take care of my body
I'll be truthful
I'll be kind and obediant
Behave reverently in His Sanctuary
Fulful God's commands with a song in my heart.

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 7:02 am 
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Thanks for that information. That was the version of the Pathfinder Law that was being used a few years ago. Though they have updated it, some of us prefer this version to the newer one.

I'm not at all trying to sound dictatorial, but let's try to keep on topic here.

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:03 am 
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I've been told by someone that they truly don't like the name for the second honor (Firefighting). They think that the honor should really teach them how to be a firefighter to "earn" such a name, such as welding does, to some extent. What are your thoughts on this? Should we change the name? If so, what would it be called?

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:26 am 
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I disagree. I look at this honor as an introduction to the profession, not as training that qualifies a person to undertake the profession. The Plumbing honor is not enough to get a person a plumbing license, nor is the Electricity honor enough to license a person as an electrician. The same can be said of the Accounting and Teaching honors. Others such as Welding and Upholstery probably are sufficient for an entry-level position.

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:38 pm 
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alot of the tech honours are introductions. most 15 year old youth of today would not know every thing the name of the honours says. This is the case even in many recreation honours eg cycling the pathfinder does not have to totally dismantle a bike but must know and beable to do minor stuff like take the wheels off to either clean or repair puncture as usually the tube needs to be totally removed. Even in nature honours the pathfinder knows stuff at a basic level they are not proficcant in the entire name of honour. Firefighting is the theory of what makes a fire and what is needed to put out one in a safe environment. We do not expect them to have the skills to put out a house fire or bush fire; these even are too big for experienced professionals.

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:51 am 
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Well. I taught the honor successfully while I was in Ukraine. I even have some patches (from Ukraine) that got sent to me once I got back to the US. Now that I'm back, I'd like to get, at least, the fire safety honor piloted and approved.


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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:49 am 
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Paul, our conference associate PF director (who is really all but the conference PF director) has been working with my club on piloting the honor. We still have a few loose ends to tidy up, though I'm pretty sure we've all earned the honor as it is written. But he wants us to exercise every option for every requirement, and I agree that that's a good idea. I'll see if I can get the modifications he made and post them soon.

We need three clubs to pilot the honor, and I know that he was working to get two more clubs in our conference to work on it. I don't know how much success he has had with that yet, so I'll ask him that while I'm at it. I don't view it as critical since you have piloted it as well. If Betsy tried it too, then we've got three clubs (as long as Paul agrees to submit it using two "outside" clubs as pilots).

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:01 am 
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Good, I'm glad that the Forum is up again. Yes, I will do the pilot. Will wait for modifications.


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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:51 am 
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I'll be looking forward to seeing the modifications.


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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:12 am 
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I have scheduled the remaining honor time my club needs with Paul, and he said he'd send me a copy of the modifications. I've not seen them yet though. He is a very busy man.

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 10:08 am 
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I've talked with my area coordinator about helping me refine the honor so that it is acceptable for submission. He doesn't think that having pilots from different conferences is bad at all. In fact, he thinks it gives a better perspective on what people think about the honor and what could be improved.

I'm hoping to pilot the first honor with my club next year. I have done a pilot in Ukraine (It was done the previous year, is that a problem?). In fact, Ukraine has already published the requirements to the EAD honors wiki book as an accepted honor. I know one or two others were piloting or going to pilot this honor. How is that going? (Am I being too much of a nag about this?)

Here is the link to my image hosting site that shows a photo (full size) of the patch we ultimately created in Ukraine. It is the far left patch.


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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 10:43 am 
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Waiting for the final modifications to see what is the update.

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 11:04 am 
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I think this is an excellant idea. I would also propose that we add another element to the advanced in that they receive their wildland firefightin certification training that some of the NW firehouses put their staff through.


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