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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 11:08 am 
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Originally, we some of us thought of doing something like that. However, these honors are more of an introduction to fire safety and firefighting basics. These honors now have the idea of knowing if you enjoy this area. And, if so, connect you with people who can further your interest (ie. Wilderness firefighting, structural firefighting, etc).

We wanted to keep these honors from being too difficult. And decided to try and keep the difficulty level at 2 instead of an all out job certification. However, there is room to expand on these honors in the future. If you would like to see wilderness and/or structural firefighting become a requirement of an honor, the possible "expansion" I just mentioned would be the place to put them.


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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:43 am 
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veteranpathfinder wrote:
I'll be looking forward to seeing the modifications.


I hope I'm not sounding impatient, but do you have those modifications yet, Jomegat?


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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:15 am 
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I'm getting impatient (and frustrated) myself, meaning, no I don't have the mods yet. We also didn't finish it this year in spite of having dedicated a half dozen meetings to it. We have an agreement to work on it some more over the summer, but have not made any arrangements yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:14 pm 
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I think everyone involved here with the creation of these two honors should be commended. As a past firefighter I think the requirements that are listed a few pages back are right on. I am going to pilot these two honors this PF year with my club. Will ask my Conf. Director to support it also, will keep y'all posted.


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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:40 am 
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Thanks for the encouragement. I will set something up with Paul soon so we can finish piloting the honor. It will be difficult to get the kids together during the summer, but I think it can be done with a core of them. I'll press him to send me the updates too.

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:39 am 
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jomegat wrote:
Thanks for the encouragement. I will set something up with Paul soon so we can finish piloting the honor. It will be difficult to get the kids together during the summer, but I think it can be done with a core of them. I'll press him to send me the updates too.


I have some clubs that do meet in the summer - they never stop - so I will talk to them as soon as I receive the modifications

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:44 pm 
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Part of my official responsibilities this year (by March 2012) is to write an official "honors submission guidelines" Quick start Guide for the NAD. I wish I had some of it to throw your direction for this pilot, but I don't...I've been procrastinating a bit.

All that said, here are some things you need:
1. EVIDENCE of piloting by a minimum of three clubs or groups. (Sometimes conferences will let you pilot honors at a Camporee or Fair, that counts too). This may be a summary letter by each group director/leader of what went well AND what edits they would suggest. It could also be brief survey's fill out by kids and local instructors that are summarized
2. a proposed patch design (prefer image, but if you only have a word description of what you imagine we'll take what we can get!)
3. ANSWER KEYS
4. A letter of "approval" from your conference Youth/Pathfinder Director, saying that s/he has read the honor, has had it piloted in the conference, and requests that it be approved by the NAD.
5. All this emailed as DIGITAL copy to myself and to Terry Dodge. Contact me off-thread for email information webmaster at pathfindersonline dot org (substitute at with the symbol and dot with a period). (anti-spam measure).

I hope this gets you started. Any chance we see a piloted version in March 2012? If so, PLEASE get all the above to us NO later than January, 2012.

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:34 am 
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We are working on it. I need one or two more pilots for this first.


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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:58 am 
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We finished this one yesterday. To do that we needed to hold a special summer session, and because of that, we didn't get as much participation in the last bit as I had wanted.

Paul has given me his updated version of the requirements which are below. Now I need to get all the kids and staff to evaluate the honor, and I'll do that soon. I can say that they were unanimous in their opinion of the honor (which was high).

I have done a little word-smithing on Paul's update. He also wrote up some answers (in a Word doc) which I will be happy to email to anyone who asks. I would summarize the differences between this version and the one we worked with here, but it has been so long that I don't remember what it looked like. I suppose I could go back and look, but... I will do that later.

Here's the proposed update:

Fire Safety Honor
1. Have the Red Alert Honor
2. Tour a fire station or invite a firefighter to give a talk to your club or school.
3. Organize and conduct a fire drill at a school, church, or other public building. Develop an exit map for one of the buildings. What information should be put on the Exit map?
4. What are smoke and carbon monoxide (CO) Detectors and how do they work?
a. What is a smoke detector and how does it work?
b. Where should smoke detectors be placed in the home?
c. What is a Carbon Monoxide detector and how does it work?
d. Where should Carbon Monoxide detectors be placed in the home?
5. Fire Extinguishers - Complete all of the following.
a. Know and understand the different classes of fires and the types of extinguishers needed to put them out.
b. With a qualified instructor, know how to use a fire extinguisher to put out a small fire.
c. Know when to quit attempting to put a fire out and evacuate.
d. Discus the reasons why keeping a clear exit is important.
e. Inspect a minimum of five (5) fire extinguishers in your school, church, or other public building.
6. Know what to look for during a fire inspection. Perform a fire safety inspection of your home and present your findings to your parents. Then perform a fire safety inspection of one of the following and present your findings to the leaders of the institution. Be prepared to give suggestions and answer questions that arise.
a. Your church
b. Your school
c. Other public building
7. What precautions must you take before starting a camp or trash fire?
8. Memorize the following Bible verses:
a. Isaiah 43:2
b. James 3:5, 6

Firefighting Honor:
1. Have the Fire Safety Honor
2. What are the elements of the fire tetrahedron (newer than fire triangle)?
3. Explain the factors that influence wildfires and structural fires.
4. What training must a person receive to become a certified firefighter in your community?
5. Choose from the following options and list the protective gear used by one type of firefighter and describe the function of each piece of gear.
a. Structural Firefighter
b. Wildland Firefighter
c. Proximity Firefighter (airport firefighting)
6. Have a firefighter demonstrate or explain the use of the tools they use while on the job.
7. As a group, construct a firebreak for a wildland or brush fire.
8. Understand the function of the following apparatus:
a. Aerial Platform
b. Air units
c. Ambulance / Rescue
d. Brush / Forestry / Wildland
e. Bulldozer
f. Command Vehicle
g. Engine/Pumper
h. Fireboat
i. Foam Truck
j. Hazmat
k. Helicopter
l. Ladder Truck
m. Quint
n. Rescue Heavy
o. Retardant Aircraft
p. Squad / Utility
q. Tanker (Wagon or Tender)
9. Put out a small fire with available materials and also demonstrate protective measures to prevent spread of that fire.
10. How do you contact a Fire Department? How are Fire fighters contacted to let them know there is a fire?
11. Outline a brief history of firefighting in your country or the history of your local fire department.
12. Discuss the role of a firefighter as it relates to Sabbath keeping.

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:07 am 
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That looks great. Will save it with the other just to see the difference. Please send me the answer that you have. Thanks :P

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:14 am 
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It looks like Paul gutted the mods we made to requirement 3 of the FS honor (either that, or I sent him the requirements before we made those mods). He said he didn't mind if we added stuff back though.

Betsy, I'll email you Paul's word doc in a few minutes.

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:36 am 
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Hello All on this project!

Can you give me a summary of what has been completed and what still needs to be completed for this proposed honor? I'd love to get a feel for whether this one is able to be submitted officially for review by the Honors Taskforce!

I read all the way through this forum thread today and am excited by the recent progress!

Mark

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:51 am 
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Completed:
  • Honor requirements hashed out
  • Answer key written
  • Patch design completed
  • Piloted by at least two clubs

Still to do:
  • Pilot by one more club
  • Collect evaluations
  • Letter from conference Youth/PF director
  • Submit to NAD

As for the "letter from conference director" item, the honor was taught to my club by our conference associate PF director. He is not the full-up director, but our full-up director has pretty much handed all responsibility for PFs to his associate. I'm sure we could get a letter from either or both.

Do we need letters from the directors of each conference in which the pilots were run?

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:21 pm 
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Jomegat,

I'd like a copy of the answers that you have as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:08 am 
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jomegat wrote:

As for the "letter from conference director" item, the honor was taught to my club by our conference associate PF director. He is not the full-up director, but our full-up director has pretty much handed all responsibility for PFs to his associate. I'm sure we could get a letter from either or both.

Do we need letters from the directors of each conference in which the pilots were run?


You only need one letter.

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:28 pm 
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Jomegat,

If you would, can you send me that answer key also? We are getting ready to pilot these two honors in the next couple of weeks. Also, do you have patches already made up for these, and if you do can I get some from you to give out at our investiture? I have myself a former firefighter and a buddy of mine that is a current firefighter that will be teaching these honors. We have told the kids about them and they are excited to begin.


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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:31 pm 
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I would be delighted to send you everything we have. We are going to make a limited number of patches in a single run, so if you could let me know how many you would like I can add that to the order. We have not placed it yet. The patch will be diamond-shaped to indicate that it was earned in the piloting stage.

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:29 am 
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jomegat wrote:
I would be delighted to send you everything we have. We are going to make a limited number of patches in a single run, so if you could let me know how many you would like I can add that to the order. We have not placed it yet. The patch will be diamond-shaped to indicate that it was earned in the piloting stage.


Can I have some too? I will need 15

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:50 am 
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Yes. I'll let you know prices as soon as I get a quote.

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:50 am 
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I know I'll need 1, for now. My previous pilot was done in Ukraine.Hopefully, I'll be piloting these honors again, this year with my US club. I think that I'll only have two in my unit, but I'm hoping to have more sign up in a little while.


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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:39 pm 
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jomegat wrote:
I would be delighted to send you everything we have. We are going to make a limited number of patches in a single run, so if you could let me know how many you would like I can add that to the order. We have not placed it yet. The patch will be diamond-shaped to indicate that it was earned in the piloting stage.


I will need 15 patches, you can also send me all the info to iluvpathfinders (@)gmail dot(.)com. I also spoke to Terry Dodge this weekend at our leadership retreat about these honors and getting them submitted for NAD approval. He told me that there needs to be a basic and advanced level requirements and answer key submitted with proof of three pilots and a letter from a Conference Pathfinder Director, and a patch design. He also said if we could get it submitted to him by Jan. 31 He would have it ready for the committee meeting in March to review, if approved they would kick it on up to the NAD approval committee. I also talked to our conference director about it and she said she would swing by while we were working on the honors so she could get familiar with them. That way if the honors get to the NAD approval committee that she sits on, she would be able to talk about it from first hand knowledge. Good work Jomegat and the rest of your team!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:44 am 
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These are two seperate honors. They are connected, however they aren't the same honor with beginning and advanced levels. We have the requirements and answers pretty much written out though.

I'd put the "Fire Safety Honor" in the Health and Science category and the "Firefighting Honor" in the Vocational category. I know that it's an odd link for having "Fire Safety" (from Health and Science) before "Firefighting" (in Vocational), but that's really where they seem to fit best.


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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:39 pm 
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I originally proposed them as standard and advanced Fire Fighting, but people here with more sense than I thought that the draft requirements were more along the lines of Fire Safety and Fire Fighting. I agree with vpf's assessment that Fire Safety belongs in Health & Science (along with Red Alert), and Fire Fighting belongs in Vocational. I think it would be a mistake to convert them back into Fire Fighting and Fire Fighting Advanced. We will likely propose them as they are. If the committee rejects them because they do not have advanced versions, well - that's their prerogative. It will give them something to talk about!

We do have an answer key and a patch design. The honor was instructed by our Conference Associate PF Director, so getting a letter from the director will not be a problem.

I am in the process of collecting honor evaluations from those who have piloted the honors via two online surveys:
Fire Safety Evaluation and Fire Fighting Evaluation.
There's a field in there to name the club with whom the Pathfinder has piloted the honor so that we can show that it was piloted in three (or more) places. I urge you to have your students fill in the survey (and... I might make it a condition for sending patches! If your group fills in 15 surveys, I will allow you to buy 15 patches).

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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:44 pm 
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Well, we had a great start to our Pathfinder year yesterday!! We had some extra kids from the community show up and wanting to join our Pathfinder Club!! :D That is always a plus. We will be starting our pilot next week, I'm so excited!! Jomegat, will you email me the finalized requirements and answer key before Thursday the 15th. I will also have to change my order of patches to 17. Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Firefighting Honor
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:21 pm 
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I have a few small revisions to what you emailed to me Jomegat.

Firefighting Honor:
    Number 8
      Letters B, K, O overlap considerably. I think that it can be condensed into two letters (maybe combine B & K into a single part, since K is a part of B).
    Number 10
      I don't think that this is necessary. This should have been covered in Red Alert. However, if you wanted, you could put in something about how a fire department is dispatched ...


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