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Pathfindersonline • View topic - Present Arms

Pathfindersonline

Networking ideas for Pathfinder Ministry
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 Post subject: Present Arms
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:24 pm 
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Location: Central New Hampshire
I have a question about the "present arms" command as it relates to wearing a uniform and saluting the flag.

My understanding is that you salute the flag only when wearing a uniform - otherwise, you should use "hands over hearts."

Is this rule observed by Pathfinders, and did I get it right? Does a field uniform count as a "uniform" in this regard?

What happens when some club members show up without a uniform? I assume we call the command according to the uniform-ness of the majority, and the PF's should just know to respond according to how they are dressed.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:59 am 
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We have always done the hand salute in full dress uniform and the hand over the heart when in T-shirts (field uniform).
While we call the T-shirt a field uniform, from the standpoint of saluting the flag, IMHO it is just a T-shirt.

I think a mixed group would salute according to how they are dressed.


Mr. Mike

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:22 pm 
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Location: Phoenix, Arizona (USA): NAD
That would be my experience as well. If in "uniform" class A or B we use a hand salute appropriate to our cover. If in class C/field uniform cover comes off and hand over th heart; as it pertians to anthems and pledges.

A salute of respect such as passing the review stand at the parade during the Pathfinder Fair or saluting a Cooridinator as a group is always a Hand Salute proper to cover (hats).

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Chris Fishell
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:38 pm 
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Location: Altoona, WI
Yep, that's how our club does it:

Field Uniform - Hand over heart

Class A or B uniform - Salute

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Chippewa Valley Lightning Pathfinder Club


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 Post subject: Class B?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:09 pm 
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Location: Central New Hampshire
I guess this belongs in the uniform forum instead, but I started it here...

What is a Class B uniform?

In my current club, we have Class A uniforms, and non-class A uniforms. It was that way in my old club too. I just moved to NH last summer, and the PF program here had been dormant for 8 years. Luckily, my new church decided to ressurect the program before I got here, or I'd have been trying to re-establish it myself.

Basically, we started from scratch this year. For a while we used plain red sweatshirts (it gets cold here in the winter) for our non-Class A uniform. Last month I taught the silkscreening honor, and in that process, I silk screened all our sweatshirts. (I only ruined two, which I replaced - that's what happens when you sign up for something that might be over your head). Since the weather's warming up now, I'm thinking about silkscreening some T-shirts too, but we'll have to wait and see.

So the sweats aren't T-shirts, but that probably doesn't make them Class B. What makes a uniform Class B?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:00 pm 
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Location: Collegedale, Tennessee
Class B is the uniform without the sash, scarf and the pins. My website shows pictures of it on the uniform page.

http://www.pathfindersrus.com/uniforms.htm


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:25 pm 
I saw your website and its real nice :D . I didn't know that there were 3 types of uniform. At my old club, we only had 2 types of uniform:

Class A, which is the full uniform.
Class B, which, for us was the T-shirt or sweater with our club logo on it.

Do different clubs choose whether or not they want to have three different types of uniforms?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:49 pm 
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The Class "B" unform being the Class "A" without the sash and scarf is really handy, I loved it when I was in GA-CUMB. However, it is not an official NAD "level" of uniform. I believe its an adaptation that was created by Ga-Cumberland conference, though I believe several different conferences use this standard.

According to the NAD however, there are two classifications:

Class "A" -- The uniform with all its parts
Field Uniform -- CLub/Conference T-shirt and pants, usually jeans.

Mark O'Ffill

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 10:08 pm 
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Truthfully there are only the two classifications but some things lend themselves to a Class B - we (clubs I have been a part of) also use jeans in good condition as the wear for Class B.

Various Community Service activities such clean-ups are well done in a more rugged attire but, the need to look "official" exists so we will dress down the Class A to a work grade. Pathfinder Belt, and shirt. Highest pins or none and the cover of the club. Simple and work friendly.

I do encourage clubs to use the Class A for every purpose where it is practical and to use the Field Uniform or Class C only when truly appropriate such as certian campouts and car washes. The uniform identifies us and our aim is an important part of our ministry.

God Bless,

Chris Fishell
Xtreme Youth Resources International


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:57 am 
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Location: Shreveport, LA (USA)
The ARKLA Conference has used the Class B uniform concept for years.
It is used for outreach activities like can collecting so that the group looks offical but without the fuss and bother of scarfs and sashes.

The field uniform has a great function if you use colors that stand out. The uniform can help the club director/staff keep track of the group when on an outing.
If you see your color T-shirt someplace it does not belong, you can check it out and bring the freelancer back into the fold.

Mr. Mike

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 3:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 7:11 am
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Location: Wisconsin
My husband and I did some research and I'm sorry I don't remember where we found it, but it seems that whenever you are in formation, and whenever in dress uniform, you salute. Feild uniforms are casual so hand over the heart unless in formation.

And in club meetings we always use the regular salute for practice.

Chelly


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:42 pm 
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Location: Altoona, WI
For our club it goes as follows:

Class A - full Pathfinder uniform(scarf, sash, slide, black/tan)
Class B - the above without scarf, sash, slide
Field - Pathfinder T-shirts with logo and jeans.

Marcie

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Chippewa Valley Lightning Pathfinder Club


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 Post subject: The Salute
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:15 pm 
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Location: England
What is the "official" salute: four outstretched fingers and thumb or four outstretched fingers and "locked" thumb (turned into the palm)? When I was a scout, the salute was three fingers with the thumb over the little finder across the palm [b]and[/b] there was meaning for the salute. As a pathfinder, based on what I have learnt from the scouts, I have created a workable rationale. Light is needed to enlighten pathfinders who will enquire.

Trevor


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:52 pm 
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Location: Phoenix, Arizona (USA): NAD
The hand-salute is not universal for all divisions. In the NAD the Hand-salute is based upon that of the American military (four fingers and thumb extended to brow or cover bill/brim). In the UK proper, it may not be the same, unfortunately I do not know with certainty. There are a couple of others on this forum from the UK who may have the answer, if not I am sure you local conference will.

God Bless,

Chris Fishell
Xtreme Youth Resources International


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 Post subject: Salute
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:13 pm 
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Location: England
Agreed. Is there a meaning for the number and usage of the fingers and thumb for the US Pathfinder? I am to attend a comporee in Denmark (Trans-European D) to teach Drilling and Marching and some explanation will be welcomed.

Trevor


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:01 pm 
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Location: Phoenix, Arizona (USA): NAD
Yeah TED, I like your division they work hard at Pathfindering.

The best recommendation I can offer is to get the manual http://www.adventsource.org/book.aspx?ID=21350
This is through AdventSource, I do not believe the manual is available through AYOutfitters as it is an NAD publication. It is $3.95USD and has a descent explanation of serval things.

At the moment I recall no official reason for the particular method that has significance. The Drill and March styles of Pathfinders as the uniforms were adopted almost verbatum from the post WWII US Army and so there may never have been consideration at the time as to why. I did not with a quick look see a reason for it in the early mv manuals either. If there is a reason you may find it here:

http://youth.gc.adventist.org/history/history_home.htm

This is a pretty thurough history of the youth ministry progress through seed to JMV and AY. I enjoy browsing it, even I learned some stuff I did not know or remember the first time I went completely through it.

God Bless,

Chris Fishell
Xtreme Youth Resources International


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 Post subject: Saluting:Pathfinders
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:22 pm 
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Location: England
Here is what I have used: Outstretched fingers and thumb. The meaning, with demonstration, has to do with the Pathfinder Pledge: The thumb - By the Grace of God; the first finger - I will be pure and kind and true; "middle" finger - I will keep the Pathfinder Law; ring finger - I will be a servant of God; little finger - And a friend to man. The idea is that the fingers need the thumb to live up/perform their roles and meet their responsibilities. This is based on the Scouts' Salute and their Pledge.
Please comment.

Trevor


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:40 pm 
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That is a good rationale, I believe. If a division or the GC were to adopt a particular reason for the salute I think that would rank high amongst considered options, so keep up the good work.

Chris Fishell
Xtreme Youth Resources International


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:59 pm 
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Location: Carolina Conference, Southern Union Conference, NAD

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 Post subject: Re: Salute
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:04 pm 
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Location: Carolina Conference, Southern Union Conference, NAD

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