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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:33 am 
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I've seen some postings about a revised NAD drill manual so I thought I'd post about the new Canadian Pathfinder Drill Manual (which differs considerably from the NAD manual). I don't know how many Canadian Pathfinders visit the forum, but here's the information anyway.

The Canadian Union has recently approved a new Canadian Drill Manual which contains revised and expanded drill instructions and illustrations and replaces the original version of the manual created some 30 years ago. The new manual is available in MS Word 2000 and Adobe PDF formats and can be downloaded from the Ontario Conference website. The website also contains a collection of drill-related audio and video resources.

Our Pathfinder cousins from other nations are also invited to drop by the website to check out how we do drill in the Great White North.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:52 pm 
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That is a great site. It is so organized & isn't lacking in information or materials. Thank you for sharing this site!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:29 am 
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Thank you for the feedback. I hope to expand the site to include even more drill resources. Coming soon: an HTML version of the drill manual with audio of the proper verbal delivery and timing of drill commands.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:54 pm 
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I will be looking forward to reading this manual as soon as get time (My team comes first :)). I like the cadence files with the beats, very well done.
I do have a question that maybe can be answered. It says on the site that the manual there is the only one authorized for use in the Canadian Union. Doesn't the NAD Pathfinder Drill Manual supplant any drill publication by a union? It is obvious that Canadian Pathfinder Drill Instructors would most likely have more knowledge of Canadian military drill than American, and it makes sense that they would practice the drill they know. Just a thought, maybe someone could fill me in.
Like I said, looking forward to reading the manual and thanks for the link.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:32 pm 
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It does seem logical for the higher office's drill manual to be the manual to follow. However, there is nothing wrong (for lack of a better word) with a union creating its own. In fact, my conference has its own drill manual. The basic idea is that the NAD manual create uniformity for all of the unions and conferences within each union. It is common, and sometimes necessary, for a union to adapt (create its own) the manual to fit its needs. The same goes for a conference. They may do the same from the union's manual (or directly from the NAD manual if no union manual exists). The NAD Manual does not say that it is the only manual that may be used for Pathfinders. It does say that it puts forward the recommended procedures (in that it modifies some aspects and cuts other parts out from a military manual, so as not to be quite as militaristic; including the use of sabers & rifles) for Pathfinders that are approved of.

The one thing that I might suggest for those of the Canadian Union is that if you participate in an event (put on by or in the NAD) that has required moves, keep in mind that everyone in the US is following the NAD Pathfinder Drill Manual. As such, there will be some slight variations in commands and execution. Different methods or techniques may also be used. This is because the Canadian Union's manual is derived from the "Canadian Forces Manual of Drill and Ceremonial" where as the NAD's manual is derived from the "1986 drill manual of the Untied States
Army."

As I said above, nothing is wrong with varying from the NAD's manual.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:49 am 
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Of course there is nothing wrong with a union creating its own drill manual. I actually endorse having these kinds of variations from place to place. What I was trying to point out as was just said is that the NAD is the standard and that's what will be used to judge required movements for competition at the NAD level. The Canadian drill is quite different from the US drill because it still carries much of the basics from the English drill. And this drill goes back hundreds of years. I have seen very similar movements in British drill manuals from the 1700's and before. The US drill is fairly recent. The first US drill manual dating to Valley Forge. Of course that drill has changed drastically since then. I still feel like we need to keep these aspects that make Pathfinder drill rich and varied.

I have never understood why Unions in the US would need to create their own drill manual. It seems that it might be useful to create an addendum to the NAD manual to cover issue not covered int he NAD manual. My conference has and addendum that is basically a manual of flags. We still don't have a manual of the colors but that is being worked on.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:16 am 
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Yes. In fact, those in the American Revolution learned much of their marching skills from the French. I have contacted James Black about updating the NAD manual to cover areas that it missed as well as providing more in the way of examples. He told me that it was being "worked on."

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:51 pm 
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Hmnm. I don't know for for sure that it was French. The man who wrote the original Drill Manual for the Continental Army was Baron Friedrich von Steuben, A Prussian Military officer. While he spoke French and German, He would have been more influence by the battle tactics of the Prussian military. If you look at the battle tactics that the Prussian army was using during the late part of the 17th century, they are very similar to the tactics and organization that von Steuben taught. He taught a lot more than drill to our first army, most of which was basic military organization. For example, he instructed that tents were to be lined up and organized by unit (up until then, they were placed wherever the men felt like placing them). If you parallel the tactics and organization of the Prussian military(In the 17th and early 18th century) and how it became more effective; and the tactics that made the Continental Army better, you'll find they are remarkably similar.
Now, I don't claim to say that there was no French influence, but that probably the majority would have been Prussian.

lol. I would be very interested to know what "worked on" means in this context. I am continually looking forward to an 'updated' NAD Drill Manual. I have been hearing rumors about one for a while but; no progress reports, no tentative publishing date, etc. In my circles, that cumulates to nothings happening. Oh, well. Maybe I'll get mine done before them :o That would be funny.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:25 pm 
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Sorry, I was thinking of the help France gave in the way of Naval support. That's what I get for being a history buff, scatterbrained, and multi-tasking.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:38 pm 
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No worries, I know how scatterbrained and multi-tasking goes. I am not a history buff except when it comes to things that can improve my ability to perform as a Drill Instructor. I find its helpful to know the origins of terms as well as drill trivia and history. My Pathfinders have fun trying to answer some of my questions :)

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:01 pm 
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If I am correct, the NAD drill manual was used by Canadian Pathfinder clubs prior to the publication of a Canadian manual in the late 1970s. That manual, developed with input from an armed forces drill instructor, was most likely due to a push for Canadian drill. As PathfinderDI has rightly pointed out, Canadian drill stems from our British roots as does the drill of most, if not all, Commonwealth countries. Furthermore, as you both have indicated, the NAD manual is the standard for drill at international camporees. However, there is an allowance for deviation from the NAD manual in the competition rules I've seen which state that teams performing drill other than that covered in the NAD manual should enter freestyle competition. The question then is, how binding is the NAD manual? Was it intended only as a guideline or was the intention that all NAD conferences and unions, including Canada and Bermuda, would perform American drill even while staying within their own borders? I believe that if it were the latter any attempt to enforce it now would be met with resistance. It is only logical that Canadian clubs would want to use Canadian drill and I suspect the same could be said of Bermuda and British drill. Currently, our drill suffers from a curious mix of Canadian, British and American drill with a healthy dose of heaven knows what, hence the need for a single drill standard as laid down in our new manual. I'm glad you like the cadences. It is my personal goal to get as much information as possible out to our people so that we adhere to that common drill standard.

I understand your desire for a revised NAD drill manual and I sense a tinge of frustration at the amount of time it is taking. We saw the same need here and I was glad to get official approval to write our manual as previous attempts at producing a manual came to naught. However, writing and illustrating it was the easy part; getting it ratified took a while longer and I confess to a fair amount of impatience at the process.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:26 am 
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Yes, I guess you could say there is a little frustration regarding the NAD Drill Manual. As a drill instructor, I like action, and have little tolerance for problems that do not get fixed. It's not really about the time it's taking to get a better one out, its with the resistance that I get when trying to convince fellow Pathfinder staff that we need an updated one. Its just an issue I have been battling for a long time. Headway is being made and I will continue to use other resources in addition to the NAD Manual until an adequate one comes out.

As far as the issue of Drill teams forced to either practice American Drill, or enter in an exhibition category. I think we should take a lesson from the interdisciplinary drill competitions held in the US where teams from all branches of the military, usually JROTC, compete together and for regulation drill, practice their own drill. There are some significant differences from branch to branch. I firmly believe that drill teams will do best when they compete with the drill that their drill instructor is familiar with. To force them to compete outside their category is not rally fair. The issue is with the competitions, not with the drill. I think it is awesome to go to an international camporee and see drill teams from other areas marching the drill from thier area. It looks really cool, and to force everyone to do the same drill may be good for standardization, but is not good for Pathfinders.

In any case, I think there is still much to be done with Pathfinder Drill and it takes small steps to do it.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:50 pm 
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As a drill instructor, I like action, and have little tolerance for problems that do not get fixed.

It seems to be common characteristic :)

...its with the resistance that I get when trying to convince fellow Pathfinder staff that we need an updated one.

Why would that generate resistance? I can hazard a guess that it's because of resistance to change but an updated manual isn't really change. Rather, it's clarifying what already exists and, based on the posts I've read on this site, there seems to be a strong desire for that clarification since vague instructions, misinterpretation and ambiguity aren't very helpful.

To force them to compete outside their category is not rally fair. The issue is with the competitions, not with the drill.

Agreed. Judging different forms of drill is obviously more difficult than judging just one but it's not an insurmountable problem and is obviously being done.


In any case, I think there is still much to be done with Pathfinder Drill and it takes small steps to do it.

Yup.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:40 pm 
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Resistance comes when you challenge the status quo. Even if what we have now if flawed.

In my opinion, it doesn't need to be updated, It needs to be rewritten. With the addition of sections to include: ceremonies, manual of colors, flag manual, manual of the guidon, drill instructor's SOP, etc.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:08 pm 
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I've added a new document that lists the French equivalents to the English drill commands used in the manual. Obviously, it's not very useful in Alberta but it should be here in Ontario and, of course, Quebec :)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:02 pm 
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The HTML version of the Canadian Pathfinder Drill Manual is now available. Go to http://www.adventistontario.org/pathfinders/Pathfinders/DrillandDrums/tabid/629/Default.aspx and click the Online Drill Manual link.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:09 pm 
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dwclarke wrote:
The Canadian Union has recently approved a new Canadian Drill Manual which contains revised and expanded drill instructions and illustrations and replaces the original version of the manual created some 30 years ago. The new manual is available in MS Word 2000 and Adobe PDF formats and can be downloaded from the Ontario Conference website. The website also contains a collection of drill-related audio and video resources.


Thanks for this post.
Do you know when this was made official ? Has the decision been communicated with the conferences ?

Thanks
Gerald

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:10 pm 
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Gerald,

The manual has been officially sanctioned by the Canadian Union but I can't give a specific date. I'm also not sure that enough has been done to make the conferences aware of its existence. I've been in contact with a Pathfinder leader in BC who didn't know about the manual until he stumbled across my post. I forwarded his concern that the manual hadn't been promoted through official channels to our Pathfinder leaders here in Ontario who pledged to rectify that.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:23 pm 
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Thanks.

On a related note, does the group that decides things on behalf of the Canadian Union keep minutes ? And post them somewhere ?

Something along the lines of ...

http://www.adventistyouthministries.org ... dates.html

would be VERY helpful to those of use living near the edge of the earth.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:52 pm 
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Another related note:

There are differences in the drill that make it challenging to teach the drill honour requirements. I am working on figuring it all out, and specifically would like to ask about.... I've written my thoughts on the subject, am I on the right path here ?

Properly execute the following basic movements:
f. Prayer Attention

Prayer Attention is not a command found in the US army manual of drill. It states in the NAD Pathfinder Drill manual, that this command is unique to Pathfinder club drill only. The command “Prayer Attention” is only given from the stance of Parade rest. At this command, male members (using their right hands) remove their headdress, and resume Parade rest with their hands behind their back. Every person bows their head. This can be confusing since Canadians have no stance of Parade rest from which to call Prayer Attention.

Neither Canadian pathfinder manual mention the command “Prayer Attention”. The command used before prayer in Canada would be “Remove Headdress”. Given at Attention, this command tells the Pathfinders (females, sihks, and musicians with instruments exempt) to remove their hat. This would be done as described in 33 (New Canadian Pathfinder Drill manual) leaving the Pathfinders at attention for prayer with headdress held at chest.

Since the command “Stand at ease” and “stand easy” could be given with headdress removed, it might be up to the person giving commands to have the Pathfinders remain at attention with head dress removed, or command them to “At Ease” or “Stand Easy”.

So to teach "Prayer Attention" in Canada under the new book, one would teach "Remove headdress" ?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:01 pm 
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It goes without saying that the current drill honour is problematic for Canadians. The topic of a Canadian drill honour has come up for discussion here and I've seen a Canadian version though it's no doubt unofficial. I'm not sure what the procedure is to gain official approval but I'll be looking into that at some point.

Quite frankly, prayer attention is something I find odd and we discussed it while revising the drill manual. First, it's an oxymoron because the position of attention requires that the head be level and the eyes fixed to the front and, second, there doesn't seem to be any consensus on how it should be done. As my background in drill came from the cadet organisation and the armed forces, I maintained that there was already a perfectly good procedure for prayer: headress is removed, personnel are stood at ease then stood easy, heads are bowed then prayers are recited. In the absence of headdress personnel are stood easy with heads bowed. On the cautionary command 'squad,' 'pathfinders,' 'parade,' etc., personnel immediately snap to the position of stand at ease. This means that headdress is brought to the centre of the chest if it has been removed. So to summarise the procedure:

If wearing headdress the commands are:
1. "Squad, Remove Headdress"
2. "Stand at Ease"
3. "Stand Easy"
4. "Bow your heads for prayer"

If not wearing headdress the first command is not given and if there are personnel who are not required to remove headdress those personnel move only on the 2nd and subsequent commands. In reverse the procedure is:

1. "Squad, Attention"
2. "Replace headdress"
3. "Stand at ease"
4. "Stand easy"

The last two commands are given to let personnel adjust their headdress (a most necessary procedure for soft, floppy headdress like berets or air force wedge caps, both of which are next to impossible to get on the head properly during a standard pause).

On a somewhat related note, do your pathfinders wear headdress while in the sanctuary? This is a contentious issue here but absolutely a non-issue when I taught pathfinders in Edmonton in the early '90s.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:05 pm 
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Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the input.

Our club usually has the girls with headdress in the sanctuary, and the guys without. I've never really thought about it, I guess it's mostly cultural tradition. Not sure if I suggest boy wear them what would happen. Seems basically a non-issue.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:47 pm 
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Tradition is certainly at the heart of the matter, the matter being that nobody in the British Commonwealth of nations renders a hand salute while not wearing headdress. Doing so is considered an American practice though curiously only the US Army and Air Force engage in it. Neither the US Navy nor the Marine Corps salute without their 'covers.' Nothing against our American cousins but they have their customs and we have ours. It causes me great consternation during ceremonial occassions when male pathfinders are told to salute while wearing their berets tucked securely under their epaulettes. There's a reason it's called headdress: it's meant to be worn on the head, not on the shoulder.

I'm curious to know what kind of response you get if your males wear their berets in the sanctuary.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:14 pm 
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Gerald,

I received your PM and would like to reply but there was no email address for you and I get errors when I try to PM you. Please PM me again with your email address.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:23 pm 
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I sent another email, due to PM giving me a SQL error.
Thanks
Gerald

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